THE DAILY TRIBUNE: SALT LAKE CITY, SUNDAY MORNING, JULY 31, 1887.
THE LAW INTERVIEW.
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Elsewhere in this impression will be seen an interview between Wm. Law and Dr. Wyl. Of course THE TRIBUNE cannot vouch for the truth of the statements of Mr. Law; but he was for a long time First Counselor to JOSEPH SMITH; he was better loved than almost any other man by the Mormons; it seems he is now reverenced by his neighbors as one of the most loveable of men. He broke with the SMITHS when he found what a measureless and wicked fraud he had become involved in; he started a newspaper in Nauvoo to expose that fraud, but it, with the office, was destroyed by a mob shortly after the first edition was printed. Men here whose honesty no one doubts, vouch for the perfect truthfulness and superior abilities of the man. The career of JOSEPH SMITH, as portrayed in this interview, is something fearful when we consider that he pretended to be an oracle of God; but it was practically repeated in this valley. How a delusion so awful can continue to hold in thralldom the minds of men in other ways sensible, is one of the marvels of the age. A creed founded on fraud and enforced by assassination, here in this free country is most strange. That any pure woman was ever persuaded to accept its cruelties is only accountable on the theory that some women delight in sacrifice, if thereby they imagine that they are serving God. How any Government with all the accumulating proof can sill regard this as a religion and entrust with political power the men who entertained it, is beyond all comprehension. To Gentiles of Utah this story of JOSEPH SMITH'S life and ways in Nauvoo; the patching of one revelation to make it in accord with another; the preying upon women; the financial dishonor; the treachery in politics; the means resorted to to silence enemies; they have seen all this paralleled right here, and yet have seen the chief instrument in all the filth and wickedness worshipped [sic] as a god. If it was possible here why was it not in Nauvoo? It seems to us there is no remedy for the hallucination except to strike all power from this creed, and all men who believe in it, and then compel the children to attend school and to study mathematics and the other exact sciences, until their eyes shall be opened. The reference to the wife of JOSEPH SMITH clears up much which has always been obscure. Had she been all that the Saints here pictured her to be, her course could only be explained on the theory of woman's devotion. If she and her husband were working in accord to delude the rabble, then the whole thing is plain, because a vicious woman is more vicious than a vicious man. If she knew that another man had to make good the sums belonging to others that her husband had spent, and felt neither sorrow nor remorse, then she was bad clear through. If all SMITH'S property was in her name, then she was bad clear through. A man may secure his wife a homestead; if, when rich, he puts all his property in her name, it means he has acquired his means dishonestly, or is meditating a steal.
DR. WYL AND WM. LAW.
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A Deeply Interesting Talk on Old Nauvoo Days.
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ASTOUNDING REVELATIONS OF DARKNESS
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Political Chicanery, Trickery, Deceit and Murder--Licentiousness and Fraud--Drunkeness and Avariciousness--Robbing Men of Their Money to Make Them Submissive--An Unprecedented Interview.
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EDITOR TRIBUNE:--In your issue of July 3rd, by your courtesy, we gave a copy each of three letters from William Law, once one of the "heads" of the Mormon "Church," to Dr. W. Wyl. Those letters spoke for themselves as from a truthful, conscientious and intelligent man, still suffering in his feelings from his former connection with the religious and political fraud, Mormonism. In the remarks accompanying the letters, in your paper, we stated that Dr. Wyl had succeeded in obtaining an interview with the venerable Dr. Law--a privilege never accorded to any interviewer before, and we said that it would be furnished ere long for the information and study of your many readers.In perusing this interview we are impressed with the goodness of heart, the honestly of purpose, the hatred of imposition under guise of religion and politics, and the remorse of soul in being caught in the meshes of such a corrupt and deceitful class of religious adventurers and speculators, displayed by the good old man; and we see, as well, the innocent, unsuspicious and confiding gentleman and Christian becoming a dupe in the system by the pretension and sophistical arguments of the delusion. Many fearful deeds and horrible acts were perpetrated in Nauvoo, of which he knew nothing, and only whisperings and innuendoes caught his ear of many of the dark plots and secrets. But when their trickery and treason became so bold and daring his eyes with those of many other good men and women, were opened and they saw more and more that shocked their sensibilities and they exposed the hypocrisy and schemes of the unholy priesthood. Like an honest man, that had the courage of his convictions, he dared to beard the lions in their dens, dared to speak out, and try to counteract the designs of the leaders. His statement of the false revelation on polygamy is interesting as showing how it was tinkered up afterwards to make it more plausible, and, also, that as in many of the so-called revelations of that church many alterations were effected to deceive the credulous and uncritical. Poor innocent Mr. Law thought that Joe Smith would repudiate the document and pronounce it false, but the dear Mrs. Law knew more of Joe's falsity, impure teachings and practices than did the man, and she said at once that the false prophet would declare it was from God.The low cunning and deceit of Joe and Hyrum Smith--par nobile fratrum!!--on the political question is well exposed by their dragging in their God to father their little schemes. Let the reader notice well how the brothers
WORKED AND DECEIVED
Both [sic] political parties to their selfish end. Joe's nefarious ending of the presumption and double dealing is a study of itself that all those who sympathize with Mormon politics under the mask of "rights" would do well to consider. It is no better now, and would be no better hereafter--Mormonism never learns or improves. It is well-known that the heads and feet of the Mormon Church pose and pretend that they are Democrats, but if both houses of Congress were largely Republican the Mormons would be Republican too, to gain an end, especially Statehood. This is proved beyond contradiction to be true by the fact that both "apostle" Geo. A. Smith and "apostle" Geo. Q. Cannon, representing the "church" by Brigham's revelation were sent to and presented themselves as Republicans delegates at the great Republican convention held a few years ago in Philadelphia--they were rejected, however, and the American gentleman and patriot, Judge McKean with another were accepted; and from the other fact that Geo. Q. Cannon, as Delegate from Utah appeared upon the Records of Congress as Democrat and as Republican in two different terms. Legislators, Americans, be not deceived by the apostles or prophets of Mormonism either in politics or religion.The testimony of Dr. Law is a fearful arraignment of Emma, Joe's wife, but it is in accordance with other facts well known to many here, and it ought to be a matter for the better class of Mormons, the Josephites, to reflect upon--false, false, all false, the words and testimony she gave.The ostracism that characterizes Mormonism here existed in Nauvoo, and ever will with its leaders--like Ishmael, "their hand is against every man, and every man's hand is against them." " [sic] But we hope that this expose of the whole treasonable and deceitful theocratico-politico government which not only threatens our liberties here but would sap the foundation of all just democratic government, will enable some of our Mormon neighbors and Gentile sympathizers to diagnosis the disease that affects the body politic.But I give at once the interview obtained by the intelligent, careful and persistent Dr. Wyl with the honest, truthful and good-hearted Dr. Law. Let our readers ponder it carefully--it is worth more than gold:
Interview with Wm. Law. Mch. 30, 1887
Dr. William Law lives with his son, Judge "Tommy" Law. The house is a fine cottage, large, well-kept grounds surround it. We entered a cheerful looking room and there sat William Law, dressed in black, a most venerable looking figure. The head has a striking expression of intelligence, the large clear eyes are of a remarkably deep steel blue; the general impression is that of a thinker, of a benevolent and just man. He greeted me in a fatherly way. I expressed my joy at seeing at last so important a witness of a history, to whose study I had devoted two years.I sat down near the venerable figure. I hesitated to put any question to him, but he made my task easy by saying: "You speak, in your book, of Joseph Smith having sent Rockwell to kill Governor Boggs. Let me tell you, that Joe Smith, told me the fact himself. The words were substantially like this, "I sent Rockwell to kill Boggs, but he missed him, it was a failure; he wounded him instead of sending him to Hell."This beginning gave me some courage and I began the pumping business, in a cautious way, though, that I might not frighten my subject. I had put down in my note book a score of questions or so. So I glanced over them now and then, stealthily, and ventured this or that question, waiting till the good doctor would get warm in the recollections of the past. This happened soon and then I could ask with more liberty."What position had Rockwell in Joseph's house?""Rockwell was the lackey of the house. He used to comb and shave Joseph, blackened his boots and drove his carriage. He would have done anything Joe wanted him to do. I never saw a horse or carriage belonging to Rockwell which you say he got from Joseph for the attempt to kill Boggs."The reader will easily understand that I had particular reasons to ask about the Expositor, Wm. Law being the only surviving publisher and editor of that celebrated sheet, born and killed June 7th, 1844. So I began:"I suppose that you originated the Expositor, Doctor Law?""Yes, I originated the idea to publish that paper. I had friends in many parts of the country. They knew that I had become a member of the Mormon religion. I wanted to show them, by publishing the paper, that I had not been in a fraud willingly (here the old man's eyes filled with tears and his voice trembled). I started the idea, and my brother, Wilson, stood to me like a brother should. I don't remember whether it was I, or not, who gave the name "Expositor." But I and my brother, we gave the money, about $2000. I gave the biggest part. The Higbees etc., had scarcely a dollar in it.""You were well off at that time. Dr. Law?""We had property to the amount of about $30,000, which was a good deal in those days. We had farms in Nauvoo, city lots and our residences. My brother had a fine brick two story building. By starting the Expositor we lost nearly everything.""Didn't you have a store and a mill?""Yes, we had a large steam flour and saw mill and a store. It would have been the smart thing to do, to remain quiet, sell our property without noise for what we could get and move away. That would have been smart, but I wasn't cool and smart then. I wanted to do my duty and nothing else, and didn't care for the consequences, not a bit. Many friends advised me to be smart and remain quiet, but I would not hear of it and spoke my mind whenever an opportunity offered. When the Smiths saw that we were against them, then they applied to us their usual system, that is, to freeze us out. Secret orders went out that nobody could buy property without the permission of Joseph Smith, Hyrum or the authorities, as they called them, so our property was practically worthless. Yes, my brother Wilson stood to me like a man, fully, fearlessly. He died, here in Shullsburgh, of a stroke of apoplexy, after an illness of three days, ten years ago. He was a very fine and tremendously strong man. He wrestled with Joe in Nauvoo and threw him on his back.""How did you become a Mormon, Doctor?""John Taylor and Almon W. Babbitt came as missionaries to Canada and preached where I lived, twenty-five miles south of Toronto. I believe that Taylor was sincere then and I believe he was to a late day. Finally the greed of power and money killed his conscience. There was, now and then, a good man in Mormondom, for instance Wm. Marks. He was a very good man and knew as little of the secret crimes of the leaders as I knew myself.""The letters you wrote me, made me suppose that the Smiths tried to kill you when they saw an enemy in you?""They tried to get rid of me in different ways. One was by poisoning. I was already out of the church when Hyrum called one day and invited me for the next day to a reconciliation dinner as he called it, to his house. He said Joseph would come, too. He invited me and my wife. He was very urgent about the matter, but I declined the invitation. Now I must tell you that I, in those dangerous days, did not neglect to look out somewhat for the safety of my person and that I kept a detective or two among those who were in the confidence of the Smiths. That very same evening of the day on which Hyrum had been to my house inviting me, my detective told me that they had conceived the plan to poison me at the reconciliation dinner. Their object was a double one. My going to the dinner would have shown to the people that I was reconciled and my death would have freed them of an enemy. You may imagine that I didn't regret having declined that amiable invitation.""Have you had any knowledge of cases of poisoning in Nauvoo, ordered by the authorities?""I know that several men, six or seven, died under very suspicious circumstances. Among them were two secretaries of the prophet, Mulholland and Blaskel Thompson. I saw Mulholland die and the symptoms looked very suspicious to me. Dr. Foster, who was a very good physician, believed firmly that those six or seven men had been poisoned, and told me so repeatedly.""What may have been the reason for poisoning the secretaries?"(With a smile) "They knew too much, probably.""What do you know about the Danites?""Nothing of my personal knowledge. They existed, but their workings were kept very secret. I never belonged to the initiated. Smith tried very hard to get them to kill me. One day my detective told me, that two Danites had gone to Joseph and told him that they wanted to put me out of the way. Joseph said: "Don't--he (Law) is too influential; his death would bring the country down upon us; wait." Later when I was thoroughly aware of my danger, they tried in all manners to use me up and had Danites all day and night after me, but I looked out and kept myself safe. Whatever there was of crime in Nauvoo, was kept secret. On the outside everything looked nice and smooth. There were lots of strangers every Sunday as visitors and then the best speakers were put on the stand as samples of the fruits of this fine religion.""Did Emma, the elect lady, come to your house and complain about Joseph?""No. She never came to my house for that purpose. But I met her sometimes on the street and then she used to complain, especially because of the girls whom Joseph kept in the house, devoting his attention to them. You have overrated her, she was dishonest.""Do you mean to say that she was so outside of the influence Joseph had over her?""Yes, that is exactly what I mean. Let me tell you a case, that will be full proof to you. Soon after my arrive in Nauvoo the two L[awrence] girls came to the holy city, two very young girls, 15 to 17 years of age. They had been converted in Canada, were orphans and worth about $8000 in English gold. Joseph got to be appointed their Guardian, probably with the help of Dr. Bennett. He naturally put the gold in his pocket and had the Girls sealed to him. He asked me to go on his bond as a guardian, as Sidney Rigdon had done. "It is only a formality," he said. Foolishly enough, and not yet suspecting anything, I put my name on the paper. Emma complained about Joseph's living with the L[awrence] girls, but not very violently. It is my conviction that she was his full accomplice, that she was not a bit better than he. When I saw how things went I should have taken steps to be released of that bond, but I never thought of it. After Joseph's death, A. W. Babbitt became guardian of the two girls. He asked Emma for a settlement about the $8000. Emma said she had nothing to do with her husband's debts. Now Babbitt asked for the books and she gave them to him. Babbitt found that Joseph had counted an expense of about $3000 for board and clothing of the girls. Now Babbitt wanted the $5000 that was to be paid Babbitt, who was a straight, good, honest, sincere man, set about to find out property to pay the $5000 with. He could find none. Two splendid farms near Nauvoo, a big brick house, worth from $3000 to $4000, the hotel kept by Joe, a mass of vacant town lots, all were in Emma's name, not transferred later, but transferred from the beginning. She always looked out for her part. When I saw how things stood I wrote to Babbitt to take hold of all the property left by me in Nauvoo and of all claims held by me again in people in Nauvoo. And so the debt was paid by me--Emma didn't pay a cent."We had chatted about an hour when Dr. Law said that he felt a little tired. I kept silent for a few minutes. The old gentleman rallied very soon, and began to speak without being questioned."I told you that the Smiths tried to poison me. When Joseph saw that I had no great appetite for reconciliation dinners, he tried with the Indians. The plan was, that somebody should use me up who was not openly connected with the church, he was yet afraid of the people because of my influence. Later he would have killed me without any regard. One day about one hundred redskins came to town and twenty or thirty were sent to my house. We tried to get rid of them, but could not and we saw clearly that they had a dark plan for the night. But we had to keep them, gave them blankets and they were all night in our hall. Wilson Law, I and some friends, though, kept good watch all night, with barricaded windows and doors and guns and pistols ready.""You have known the parents of the prophet, old Lucy and old Joe, the Abraham of this new dispensation?""Oh, yes, I knew them. Old Lucy was in her dotage at that time; she seemed a harmless old woman. Old Joe sold blessings, so much a head, always in the same style--that my sons should be emperors and my daughters mothers of queens, and that everybody should have as many children as there was sands on the shore. Old Joe was an old tramp.""How about Dr. Bennett?""Bennett was very smart and clever, but a thorough scoundrel. Never could find out the reason of his downfall. Mrs. Pratt was a most excellent, pure woman, but the fact that Bennett visited her sometimes, was used by Joseph to ruin her character. He had his spies everywhere, and if a woman refused him, he sent his fellows out to whisper stories around about her.""What do you remember about Emma's relations to the revelation on celestial marriage?""Well, I told you that she used to complain to me about Joseph's escapades whenever she met me on the street. She spoke repeatedly about that pretended revelation. She said once: "The revelation says I must submit or be destroyed. Well, I guess I have to submit." On another day she said: "Joe and I have settled our troubles on the basis of equal rights." * * * Emma was a full accomplice of Joseph's crimes. She was a large, coarse woman, as deep a woman as there was, always full of schemes and smooth as oil. They were worthy of each other, she was not a particle better than he.""You think that Joseph was an infidel?""Yes, that he was I have not the slightest doubt. What proofs have I? Well, my general and intimate knowledge of his character. And is it possible that a man who ascribes all kinds of impudent lies to the Lord, could have been anything else but an infidel?""Did you ever see the celebrated peepstone?""No. I never saw it and I never saw Joseph giving a revelation. But Hyrum told me once that Joseph, in his younger years, used to hunt for hidden treasures with a peepstone.""Was Joseph a habitual drunkard?""I don't believe he was. I only saw him drunk once. I found Joseph and Hyrum at a place where they kept quantities of wine. I remember that Joseph drank heavily, and that I talked to Hyrum begging him to take his brother away, but that was the only time I saw the prophet drunk.""Have you ever heard of the old woman that was drowned in the interest of the church?""I have heard of a woman being put aside. They said she had been brought over the river and buried on an island near the shore or on the other shore, near the water. But at that time I did not believe a word of rumors of this kind, and did not investigate them.""Did you ever hear of abortion being practiced in Nauvoo?""Yes. There was some talk about Joseph getting no issue from all the women he had intercourse with. Dr. Foster spoke to me about the fact. But I don't remember what was told about abortion. If I heard things of the kind, I didn't believe in them at that time. Joseph was very free in his talk about his women. He told me one day of a certain girl and remarked, that she had given him more pleasure than any girl he had ever enjoyed. I told him it was horrible to talk like this.""What do you know about robbery being practiced for the benefit of the church?""That sort of business was kept very secret. Hyrum had once a very fine, bran [sic] new blue suit, and people told me the suit was the produce of the spoils of the Gentiles. I have no doubt, that Hyrum played an important role in this department of church affairs. I think I can prove it. There was one day a "little council" called in Hyrum's office, and I was invited to come. Joseph called at my house and took me to the little council. Eight or ten were present, all leaders in the church. Hyrum made a long argument--said he: "The Missourians have robbed, plundered and murdered our people. We should take our revenge on them as thoroughly as possible, and regain what we have lost in Missouri. The simplest way would be if our people would go to Missouri and buy their horses and cattle on credit and then not pay for them; and our merchants would go to St Louis and take their large quantities of goods on credit and then, when the notes became due, simply not pay them; our people always go there and pay for everything. That's foolish, very foolish, but it is just the thing that, for instance, Brother Law is doing. He has paid thousands of dollars there; but get all these things from them for nothing, horses, cattle and goods, that would help the people wonderfully. Our merchants should transfer all they have--not only their stock in trade, but their lots, houses and farms, too; to their wives and friends in general, so that the creditors could not get a cent out of them." Some of those present applauded the proposition, and said that would be only fair. I said nothing. Then somebody said: Brother Law has said nothing. I said: This seems to me not only wrong and unjust, but at the same time very ridiculous, because it is not practicable. You cannot buy horses and cattle on credit without having established a credit by long trading; and as to St. Louis, I was always of the opinion that the people there had been very good to the Mormons. So you would ruin your friends to injure your enemies, punish the innocent to hurt the guilty. The St. Louis merchants were surely not the men that persecuted you in Missouri. Hyrum got up, furious. ready to attack me. But Joseph rose and said: "I move that we adjourn this meeting. Brother Law has said his opinion, and that is all you wanted from him. Joseph went home with me and on the way he told me that he shared my views fully, and that I had exactly spoken his mind. He praised me very much for the justice and honesty of my views. 'I did not talk,' said he, 'since you took the very words from my lips.' I need not tell you, that this was diplomacy on Joseph's part, but Hyrum hated me from that moment, and never forgave me for what I had said at that little council. But Hyrum hated me for another reason.""Was that in the robbery line, too?""No. That was from a political reason. It was because I opposed him in the dirty political trade he made with Hoge against Walker. Walker had bought Joseph's influence by declaring that the city charter of Nauvoo secured the habeas corpus. I stood by them when Joseph promised that he should have nine out of every ten Mormon votes. But Hyrum went to Galena to meet the Democratic convention there, and promised the support of the church to Mr. Hoge for a seat in Congress. Yes, General Hyrum Smith was to sit in Congress next year. Saturday came and I went to Hyrum and had a talk with him. He said he would tell the people to vote for Hoge, and I said I would oppose him on the stand. He made objections but finally had to consent to my speaking on the stand in this matter. When it came to the speaking in public Hyrum did all he could to obstruct me by putting longwinded speakers on the stand, one after the other, so that it was nearly dark when I got on the stand. Now, I showed the people how shamefully they had treated Mr. Walker, and I made such an impression that they began to shout for Mr. Walker. Then, Hyrum jumped on the stand and declared that he had a revelation from the Lord, that the people should vote for Mr. Hoge. This was Saturday. Sunday morning I went to Joseph and told him what Hyrum had done. We went over to the meeting and Joseph told Hyrum what I had said. Hyrum insisted that he had had a revelation. Oh, said Joseph, if this is a revelation, then it is all right, and he went on the stand and said to the people: 'My office is so high, that I could not think of bothering the Lord with political affairs. But brother Hyrum has had a revelation--when the Lord speaks let the people obey.'""Had you ever some dramatic scene with Joseph about the difficulties between you and him?""He avoided me. But once I got hold of him in the street and told him in very plain terms what I thought of him. I said: 'You are a hypocrite and a vulgar scoundrel, you want to destroy me.' Instead of knocking me down, which he could have done very easily, being so much bigger and stronger than I, he went away hurriedly without uttering a single word.""Were you in Nauvoo when the Expositor was destroyed?""No. I was in Carthage. There was a meeting at the court house, many people were present and it was considered what should be done regarding the Mormons. I think Stephen A. Douglas was present at the meeting. My friends urged me to come to Carthage with the press immediately. No conclusion was arrived at, however. The same evening we went home and when we came to Nauvoo we rode over our type, that was scattered in the street, and over our broken office furniture. The work of Joseph's agents had been very complete; it had been done bv a mob of about 200. The building, a new, pretty brick structure, had been perfectly gutted, not a bit had been left of anything.""Had anything been prepared for a second number?""Yes, the inside of number two had been set up. Seeing what had been done, I my abode, for safety's sake, at my brother's. I left Nauvoo on a large new steam ferry-boat, which transported me, my family and my brother to Burlington, Iowa. While we had people packing our things in my house, we rode, my brother and I, through the city in an open carriage, to show that we were not afraid.""Did yon ever see Joseph again after you left Nauvoo?""Only once. I saw him in Carthage at the trial. We spoke not to each other and he seemed greatly preoccupied. We left Nauvoo on the second day after the passing of the ordinance which put the press under the absolute will of Joseph and his creatures. This ordinance gave them power to imprison and fine us at liberty.""What opinion have you of Governor Ford?""Ford made a good impression upon me; he was surely a good, straight man.""What kind of a life did the prophet lead in Nauvoo?""Joseph lived in great plenty. He entertained his friends and had a right good time. He was a jolly fellow. I don t think that in his family tea and coffee were used, but they were served to the strangers when he entertained as tavern-keeper. At least, I suppose so. The Smiths had plenty of money. Why, when I came to Nauvoo I paid Hyrum $700 in gold for a barren lot and at that rate they sold any amount of lots after having got the land very cheap, to be sure. Their principle was to weaken a man in his purse, and in this way take power and influence from him. Weaken everybody, that was their motto. Joseph's maxim was, when you have taken all the money a fellow has got, you can do with him whatever you please.""What became of Dr. Bennett?""The last thing I heard of him was that he went up the river with a large lot of fancy fowls, a speculation of his.""What do you know about the revelation on polygamy?""The way I heard of it was that Hyrum gave it to me to read. I was never in a High Council where it was read, all stories to the contrary notwithstanding. Hyrum gave it to me in his office, told me to take it home and read it and then be careful with it and bring it back again. I took it home, and read it and showed it to my wife. She and I were just turned upside down by it; we did not know what to do. I said to my wife, that I would take it over to Joseph and ask him about it. I did not believe that he would acknowledge it, and I said so to my wife. But she was not of my opinion. She felt perfectly sure that he would father it. When I came to Joseph and showed him the paper, he said: 'Yes, that is a genuine revelation.' I said to the prophet: 'But in the Book of Doctrine and Covenants there is a revelation just the contrary of this.' 'Oh,' said Joseph, 'that was given when the church was in its infancy, then it was all right to feed the people on milk, but now it is necessary to give them strong meat' We talked a long time about it, finally our discussion became very hot and we gave it up. From that time on the breach between us became more open and more decided every day, after having been prepared for a long time. But the revelation gave the finishing touch to my doubts and showed me clearly that he was a rascal. I took the revelation back to my wife and told her that Joseph had acknowledged it. 'That is what I fully expected.' said she. 'What shall we do?' said I. She advised me to keep still try to sell my property quietly for what I could get. But I did not follow her advice. My heart was burning. I wanted to tread upon the viper.""You returned the revelation to Hyrum?""Yes, I did. I was astonished to see in your book that the revelation was such a long document. I remember DISTINCTLY that the original given me by Hyrum was MUCH SHORTER. It covered not more than two or three pages of foolscap. The contents are substantially the same, but there was not that theological introduction. The thing consisted simply in the command of doing it, and that command was restricted to the High Priesthood and to virgins and widows. But as to Joseph, himself, the Lord's chosen servant, it was restricted to virgins only, to clean vessels, from which to procure a pure seed to the Lord.""In what manner would Joseph succeed to keep you and others from knowing what was going on behind the curtain?""Marks, Yves, I and some others had, for a long time, no idea of the depravity that was going on. This was simply the result of a very smart system adopted by the prophet and his intimate friends like Brigham Young, Kimball and others. They first tried a man to see whether they could make a criminal tool out of him. When they felt that he would not be the stuff to make a criminal of, they kept him outside the inner circle and used him to show him up as an example of their religion, as a good, virtuous, universally respected brother.""Was Joseph a coward?""Yes, he was a coward and so was Hyrum. You see it already in the fact that when I attacked him on the street with most violent words, he did not dare to answer a word.""How did the prophets dress?""Joe and Hyrum were always dressed well, generally in blue, sometimes in black. Joseph was a fine man, no doubt of it.""How was it with Joseph's wrestling?""The forces of the prophet in this line have been exaggerated. My brother Wilson wrestled once with him and he laid him down on the floor like a baby. Wilson could throw a lead bar much farther than Joe could. But Wilson was an uncommonly fine and strong man, over 6 feet. He could hold a weight of 56 pounds on his little finger and write his name on the wall in big letters. Joseph was flabby; he never worked at anything and that probably made him so. Rockwell did everything about the house.""Had you any idea that there was a sort of conspiracy to kill Joseph in jail?""No. I had no idea, no idea. I had been ruined by that man; all my property was gone; all my dearest illusions destroyed, and through my connection with him I got a black spot on my life, which will pain me to the very last minute of my existence. But I tell you [The old gentlemen buried his head in his hands and when he removed them, his eyes were wet.] I tell you, no, if I had had any idea of any such scheme, I would have taken steps to stop it. I have always considered the killing of Joseph Smith a wrong action. It is my opinion that he deserved his fate fully, much more than thousands of men who paid the penalty of their crime to Judge Lynch--but I would have preferred that he should have been tried by court and sent to the Penitentiary.""Did you practice medicine in Nauvoo, Doctor?""Only occasionally. I came to Nauvoo with money. I had had a mill in Canada, already. Joseph said to me: 'You must not be a doctor here. Buy lands, build mills and keep a store to keep you running. As to practicing and not making anything, let some Gentiles come and do that. You look out for business and profit. I practiced, however, occasionally. Once John Taylor was taken with a very malignant fever. He was treated by his regular physician. I think Dr. Wells was his name. He grew worse and worse. At last I was called in, saw him and prescribed for him. They followed my prescriptions and he got better. This is, I believe, the worst thing I did in Nauvoo or anywhere else!" --Dr. Law followed this joke with a chuckle, so as to give me to understand that it was a sin to cure so great a rascal.["]"What kind of men were the other editors of the Expositor?""Dr. Foster was a fine physician and surgeon and a very agreeable, lively, interesting man. The Highees had been very good friends of Joseph in Missouri and had served his cause there with a kind of boyish enthusiasm. Frank died long ago and Chauncey only lately. He had studied law, was an attorney and sat on the bench for a while. He was quite intelligent. The father of the Higbees had been an excellent man. He died rather suddenly, and from that time there was something between his boys and Joseph.""What kind of a physician was Dr. Bennett?""He was a physician of the old school. I could not say whether he was very successful as a doctor or not. He was so much occupied for Joseph, that he had no time to attend the sick.""Did Joseph pay any salary to this Bismarck of his?""I don't know, but in that honeymoon of favor, which he enjoyed in his first Nauvoo time, Joseph gave him surely all he wanted.""Did you ever hear Joseph speak of his money?""Oh yes, he used to boast of his riches. He expressed the opinion, that it was all important that he should be rich. I heard him say myself, 'it would be better that every man in the church should lose his last cent, than that I should fall and go down.'"After pumping the dear, good old Doctor for two hours. I relaxed my hold on him and our conversation began to run on in an easier style. He made some interesting remarks, still, indeed he didn't say anything that wasn't interesting, every instance bearing the strong impress of his keen intelligence and interesting strong, manly character. Let me quote one more detail. Said Wm. Law: "What saved me from death in 1844 was, 1, my caution; 2, the devotion of my detectives and 3, Joseph himself. He had inculcated into the minds of his followers the rule, that the "heads" of the church must be safe before all. This became a strong superstition in the minds of his people, so strong that they did not dare to touch me. And he himself feared me so much because of my popularity and good standing, that he tried for a long time to put me out of the way in a manner that the church could not be charged with it. At last, however, he became desperate and would have killed me in any manner--but then it was too late in the day."What I got out of the venerable Patriarch, William Law, the friends of the study of Mormon History owe entirely to the masterly tact and diplomacy of Judge Law, the son of the good Doctor. Judge Tommy J. Law is an attorney and the publisher of a very successful weekly paper. He is a splendid figure of a man, with a flowing beard, every inch a whole hearted, frank gentleman. He venerates his father and the memory of his mother. "My father," he says proudly, "was considered the best speaker in the Mississippi valley; many men said he would have beaten Beecher had he followed that career. I heard him myself some thirty years ago, deliver a Fourth of July speech. He kept his audience spellbound, his influence was truly magnetic. Wilson Law was one of the finest and strongest of men, but intellectually he was below my father. He was a few years older and died 70 years old. He had been a farmer for many years. We are five boys, two are lawyers, two doctors, and one is a merchant. John is a leading physician in Leadville, Colorado. He is 45 years. The merchant, now a man of about 54, R. S. Law, lives in California. William Law junior lives in Chicago and is a very successful law practitioner. W. R. Law, a physician, about 40 years old (the youngest) lives in Darlington, Wisconsin. Our only sister, Mrs. Douglas, is the wife of the president of the Shullsburgh Bank. My mother was a most excellent woman, good to the people in the highest degree, charitable, visiting the sick. Everybody loved her and the whole country turned out when she was buried. My father received a terrible shock through her death. I don't believe there was ever a happier couple. For many months after her death he used to break down whenever he saw anybody who had known her. We all thought he would follow her soon. But he rallied, though he is yet unable to speak of her without tears. What has been said about Joseph having made an attempt on her is not true. In such a case my father would not have started a paper against him--he would have shot his head off. No man can be more delicate and conscientious about the relations of husband and wife and more apt to be terrible in such a case, than my father. Two years ago he had an attack of pneumonia. My brother came from Leadville and nursed father for two weeks. His life was despaired of but he rallied once more. He said at that time: "Well, my life has anyhow been a failure." Nobody can cure him of this idea, that Mormonism has ruined his career. A man less sensitive, less retiring would have made capital out of what he knew, lectured all over the country, etc. After leaving Burlington, Iowa, my father came to Wisconsin and lived for many years on a farm. He was the confidential physician of all his neighbors for ten miles around, the most popular physician there ever was. We always want him to give up practicing, but there are so many people who absolutely must have Dr. Law when they are sick."Yes, I was once in Utah, I saw Brigham Young but had no talk with him. One of his brothers, a very stout man, who kept a store, told me not to be on the street after dark. 'There are always some hotheaded young fellows,' said he, 'who would think of gaining great merit and reputation if they would injure a man of your kind. It is so very difficult to control them--so you had better keep at home after dark.'"This is what Judge Law told me about the history of the Law family: "My father was born in Ireland, Tyrone County, his parents were of Scottish descent. They emigrated to America, when William Law was nine years old. He lived with his parents for years in Pennsylvania; he studied in Philadelphia and Pittsburg [sic]. His father was a wealthy farmer. Wm. Law later emigrated to Canada and married there a lady of the Silverthorn family and lived there till he went to Nauvoo. Wilson Law never lived in Canada. William Law was the youngest of five brothers, and he is the only surviving one."I have tried hard to verify Judge Law's opinion about his father by asking lots of people in Shullsburgh and on the train. I heard nothing but "Oh, Dr. Law is a fine old gentleman; the most popular man we have round here." Mr. Sheaby, who keeps the hotel, in which I spent two days, said: "Dr. Law is a good, fine old man, honest and very kind to the people. I don't think that this old man has a single enemy, and his wife was loved by everybody, too, she was the soul of kindness."The good Doctor had been quite sick for a good many weeks and it was very doubtful, whether he would receive me or not. Judge Law convinced him, that I was a pretty decent fellow and succeeded in getting admission for me, though the Doctor had said, pretty energetically, when he heard of my arrival: "I don't want to be interviewed." When I had finished my operations, the Dr. said: "I hope you will do the Laws more justice now"--and he said it with a good, dear look in those wonderfully eloquent, steel-blue eyes.There is nothing in the aspect of the old gentleman that indicates 78 summers, except the white hands, that tremble a little. I said: "God bless you, Dr. Law," when I went to the door. I looked round and I couldn't help it--went back to shake his hand once more. I held out both hands; he put aside his black staff and grasped both my hands, and gave me such a hearty, warm, good shake. I said: "Doctor, be cheerful. You will live twenty years yet like William of Prussia. The Williams are a good race, I belong to it myself."There is a strong resemblance between the Law and the Godbe movement and still a stronger one between the great heart of Wm. Law and the deep, unselfish, noble soul of Wm. S. Godbe. The rebellions of 1844 and 1870, both came from great hearts, that had been destroyed by the lies and driven to despair by the cruel egotism of the Mormon leaders. And while speaking of hearts crushed by Mormonism, was there ever a kinder, a purer, a braver one than that beating in the bosom of Mrs. Sarah Pratt? And was this grand woman's heart not martyrized a thousand times worse, than those of our justly celebrated friends Law and Godbe? Men can resist, oppose, fight and wound and finally win and overthrow--but the wife and mother, what is her prize? The tears of her children on her grave--that is all. Well, may the Lord--not Joe's Lord--bless those three Great souls and all those excellent friends that helped me to study and understand Mormon History; and may they all see the downfall of one of the greatest infamies in human history. God bless them all and may He bless the great, good, patriotic paper, the joy of the student, the consolation of the philosopher, the hope of the Gentile and Mormon sufferer. THE SALT LAKE TRIBUNE!W.WYL.
SUCH AN INTERVIEW
As the foregoing has never before been published on the Mormon question. It may aid the cause of liberty in Utah, and prevent the success of Mormon movements looking towards Statehood. To some Mormons it may help to bring them to the standstill and make them think of the origin and development of this stupendous fraud; but to the mass of the people who may read it, yet the majority may never see it, we fear that they are in as hopeless a condition as was the ancient Ephraim. "He (Ephraim) is joined to his idols, let him alone."INVESTIGATORSalt Lake City, July 23, 1885 [sic].
Tuesday, April 22, 2008
Sunday, April 20, 2008
William Law Letters
This is an interesting historical tid bit.
THE DAILY TRIBUNE: SALT LAKE CITY, TUESDAY, JULY 3, 1887
THE MORMONS IN NAUVOO.
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Three Letters from William Law on Mormonism.
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AN HONEST MAN'S VIEW AND REMORSE.
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The Nauvoo Hell--Its Deviltries Touched Upon--The Sort of "Kingdom of God" Joseph Smith Fixed up for Himself--A Plain Portrayal.
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EDITOR TRIBUNE: --Dr. Wyl, author of "Mormon Portraits," has made a study of Mormonism in its past and present; has so penetrated its secret machinations and wicked workings, and presented such an array of facts, that his book is the most valuable on the subject that has ever been published. If there are any errors they are only in dates, names and minor details, and of no importance to the history and the facts--mistakes only of memory and small matters that affect nothing. It is to be remembered, however, that Dr. Wyl has not willfully misrepresented anything, but has good foundation even for incidents in which he cannot relate minutest particulars correctly. Considering the time that has elapsed since the history of this "peculiar people" began, the distant or obscure places where the acts were committed, the lying spirit of the fraud, and the character of the people, and the willful perversion of facts recorded by themselves in their own history of the "church," he has produced a wonderful work.
But Dr. Wyl continues the study of the system and produces new testimony, or rather old testimony from parties whom he has ferreted out, who kept themselves aloof from writers and interviewers. In his investigations he is presistent [sic] and cannot be bluffed or turned aside. His knowledge of human nature, is insight and foresight enable him to wind his way into the confidence of his subjects, and draw from them truths that they would otherwise unwillingly reveal.
By the merest accident, while Dr. Wyl was in Denver, preparing his second volume of "Mormon Portraits" he learned that Mr. William Law, whilom [who was?] Jos. Smith's "counselor" in Nauvoo, is still alive, and practicing medicine in Wisconsin. Dr. Wyl set his wits to work on obtaining information from Mr. Law, and to have the pleasure of interviewing him. He wrote to the gentleman and received three letters in reply to his several letter of inquiry. Mr. Law absolutely refused to be interviewed. A fund of valuable, reliable testimony was elicited by this correspondence and subsequently by aid of the mediation of Mr. Law's son an interview was obtained containing the most interesting disclosures, and incidents in the life of Mormonism in Nauvoo while Mr. Law resided there.
We give below a copy of three letters received by Dr. Wyl fro Dr. William Law, in which will be seen the honesty, truthfulness and sincerity of the writer, and that he feels it an eternal disgrace to be mentioned even that he lived among such an infamous community, although opposing their diabolical teachings and corrupt practices. The old gentleman is exceedingly sensitive and really condemns himself for his innocent weakness. In being once with such a treasonable, wicked crew, running under the name of religion.
LETTER I.
SHULLSBURG, Wis., Jan. 7, 1887.
Dr. W. Wyl:--Dear Sir: I received yours of the 24th ult. also your book. Please accept thanks. I have not been well for three or four weeks, hence delay answering. You say it is very important to you to know, "if I am the Law who played such an important part in the Nauvoo events of 1843 and 1844." I am unfortunately the one. I cannot see how you are at all interested in my identity, for I assure you I have retired for ever from the Mormon controversy. When I left Nauvoo I left Mormonism behind, believing that I had done my part faithfully, even at the risk of my life, and believing. also, that the Expositor would continue to do the work it was intended to do. The Smiths thought they had killed it; whereas, by destroying the press, they gave it a new lease of life and extra power to overthrow them and drive their followers from the State. I have looked over your book, and am astonished at the amount of matter you have gathered together; it seems to me that you know at least ten times as much about Mormonism as I do, or ever did. I never resided with the Mormons as a people, only during my short stay in Nauvoo. I think that to have a thorough knowledge of any people it is necessary to live amongst them a considerable length of time. Before reading your book I had but very little knowledge of the family history of the Smiths or Rigdon; had never inquired into the particulars. After I left Nauvoo I did not care or trouble myself about them. I had no personal knowledge of the swindling and other wicked doing at Kirtland, nor did I know anything about the Missouri trouble; was told that their troubles in Ohio and Missouri all grew out of "religious persecution." I went from my home in Canada to Navuoo and found a very poor, but industrious people; they appeared to be moral and religiously disposed; the Smiths and others preached morality and brotherly kindness every Sunday. I saw nothing wrong until after the city charter was obtained. A change was soon apparent; the laws of the country were set at defiance and although outwardly everything was smooth, the under current was most vile and obnoxious. Time revealed to me and to many others much that we had not even suspected. We were kept in the dark as long as possible and held up before the public as examples of the Mormon people. Well, you know what followed. I believe you have endeavored to give a true account or history of the Mormons and Mormonism and I think you have succeeded wonderfully well. Your informants, however, may, now and then, have drawn a little on their imagination, may have reached false conclusions in some instances judged from circumstances and not from facts; doing injustice, perhaps, to the innocent. Where testimony conflicts it is sometimes very difficult to form conclusions. Mormon history is rather a mixed up affair. I would call your attention to one or two little mistakes concerning myself. You say I was a general in the Nauvoo legion. I never was, never held a commission of any kind in it. I sometimes (by request) assisted in drilling the men. having a little knowledge of military tactics. My Brother Wilson held a general's commission from Governor Carlin. My brother was not a Mormon. On page 108 you speak of "swapping wives," and state that you have it from one who knows. Now let me say to you that I never heard of it till I read it in your book. Your informant must have been deceived or willfully lied to you. Joseph Smith never proposed anything of the kind to me or to my wife; both he and Emma knew our sentiments in relation to spiritual wives and polygamy; knew that we were immoveably [sic] opposed to polygamy in any and every form; that we were so subsequent events proved. The story may have grown out of the fact that Joseph offered to furnish his wife, Emma, with a substitute for him, by way of compensation for his neglect of her, on condition that she would forever stop her opposition to polygamy and permit him to enjoy his young wives in peace and keep some of them in her house and to be well treated, etc.
The great mistake of my [life was my] having anything to do with Mormonism. I feel [it to] be a deep disgrace and never speak of it when I can avoid it; for over forty years I have been almost entirely silent on the subject and will so continue after his. Accept my kind regards.
>Wm. Law.
In the foregoing it will be seen that Mr. Law was innocent of the many evils that existed in Nauvoo, hence he can can [sic] tell but little, but that little is true and of value; and being unsuspecting in disposition he does not pretend to know all, but what he knew he knew. He believed for years the "priesthood" tales of persecution, without inquiring or questioning. On "exchange of wives" he was not fully informed, but there is abundant testimony that it was practiced there frequently.
His remarks on the Nauvoo Charter are in consonance with the whole history, spirit and purpose of Mormonism, and it is valuable at the present time when the "Church" and its "heads" are clamoring for Statehood. Let the words of Dr. Law, which are the expression of his experience forty-four years ago, be kept in memory: "I saw nothing wrong until after the City Charter was obtained. A change was soon apparent, the laws of the country were set at defiance, and although outwardly everything was smooth, the undercurrent was vile and obnoxious. Time revealed to me and many others much that we had not suspected." etc. Let our Gentile friends fast read and ponder, and our fellow citizens in Utah be prepared to avert the fearful evil and its consequences of Statehood in Utah as present.
We can see now more clearly as we have seen all along, that Joseph Smith withdrew his proffer to give Emma a "substitute", for it is so stated between the lines in the pseudo "revelation" on polygamy and all corroborative of Dr. Law's Testimony.
Sidney Rigdon "was a disappointed man" indeed! He, the originator of the fraud, the manipulator of Spalding's story into the "Book of Mormon," a visionary and speculator on the teachings and prophecies of Scripture, aspired to be a Church founder and a leader, as were the Campbells, and he used young Joseph Smith, the peep-stone fellow, for that end, but Joe liked the ruse, like the honor himself and kept Sidney back as well as he could. Sidney now and then appeared as the "head," as when he washed Joe's feet in imitation of Jesus washing his followers' feet. Sidney, the originator of Mormonism "was disappointed."
LETTER II
SHULLSBURG, La Fayette Co., Wis. Jan. 20, 1887.
Dr. W. Wyl: Sir: I duly received yours of the 12th inst. I now reply: in looking over your book again. I remain of the opinion that your knowledge of Mormonism or the leaders of it is very extensive and as I said before, far greater than mine. I admit also, that the work may do some good in the world; and yet to me it brings humiliation, deep mortification and pain. The case stands like this: in your book you give a most appalling, black and horrible history (true, no doubt) of the Smiths. Rigdon and many others, leaders and members of the organization, show them guilty of almost every form of crime and abomination, murderers, robbers, thieves, swindlers, perjurers, fornicators, adulterers, polygamists denying the laws of God and man, a people not fit to live with or to associate with in any way. And then you go on to speak of different individuals, amongst them Wilson law and William Law as generals in the Nauvoo Legion, and that William Law also held the office of "vice-president" of the Church. You say, however, that the Laws were a "pretty good kind of men," and "would not be forced to prostitute their wives and daughters" etc. For this admission I thank you. Now see how this looks before the world! Associated with; residing with and doing business among such fiends, no matter how we endeavored to redeem ourselves, how we risked our lives and sacrificed our property, the world will only see the dark side that is given, for somehow it is natural for most people to see the faults and errors of their fellow beings, rather than the good that may be in them. For more than forty years I have kept Mormonism and all my past connected with it, out of my mind, and away from my friends and acquaintances so far as possible. Have never read any of the books published about the Mormons; never read Bennett's book, have kept no papers published in Nauvoo; haven't a scrap of any kind; the only number of the Expositor I had, some one carried off. My wife (at an early day) burned up the Book of Mormon and the Doctrine and Covenants. She said no Mormon work could find a place in her house. We have lived down a great measure the disgrace following our unfortunate association with the Mormons. We committed a great error, but no crime. This is my consolation, that we only erred in judgment.
I said that in your book you spoke rather favorably of my brother and myself; of my wife, however, your remarks were far from flattering. She, were she living, would consider them insulting. You said she was much "admired and desired" by Smith; that Smith admired and lusted after many men's wives and daughters, is a fact, no doubt; but they could not help that. They or most of them considered his admiration an insult, and treated him with scorn. In return for this scorn, he generally managed to blacken their reputations--see the case of your friend, Mrs. Pratt, a good, virtuous woman. I will now take the trouble of showing you just how my wife and Joe Smith stood toward each other. Sometime in 1843 (I think), he ordered the Twelve to meet, and cut off from the Church William Law and his wife, also Dr. Foster, and to publish it in he Times aud Seasons at once. They did so. A few days after I saw the notice in the paper, I think it was the same day, met Elder John Taylor and remarked to him: You have been cutting off my wife and me from the Church. I asked him what the charges were, and who had made them. He said: "Brother Joseph ordered you cut off." He said further that Joseph had known for a long time that we were apostates, and further that my wife had been speaking evil of him for a long time; he had found it out, said she had slandered him, had lied about him without cause. I said: "Elder Taylor, my wife would not speak evil of yourself or anyone else without good cause. Joseph is the liar and not she, and as to the cutting off, it is illegal and contrary to the laws of the Church to cut off or condemn without a trial, simply by the command of a base tyrant, but you can tell His Majesty that we withdrew from the Church months ago; so his cutting off comes too late." My wife is dead over four years, and a truer, purer, more faithful wife never lived. My brother Wilson is also dead, these ten years. He stood by me in all my troubles at Nauvoo, risking his life, defying the "Destroying Angels" and all the rest of them. You would not wonder then that the reputation and memory of such a wife and such a brother, should be as dear to me as life itself.
You asked me if the Expositor continued? No. When I spoke of its work continuing. I meant that its destruction gave it a new life and power to destroy its destroyers. For it was the chief factor in bringing about the death of the Smiths, and the expulsion of the Mormons from the State of Illinois. As to Emma's deathbed declaration, it was like her life, FALSE. If she ever had any good in her, Smith so demoralized her, that she had none left. Anything for money and power and gratification while she lived, and the same to her sons after her. She and the Smiths, as many as I knew, were infidels, if not atheists, at least I believe so.
As to the history of Joseph Smith, I have but little to add to your knowledge of him. One trait was his jealousy of his friends, lest any of them should be esteemed before him in the eyes of the Church or of the public. He would destroy his best friend for the sake of a few hundred dollars. It was his policy to get away with a man's money, first, because he wanted it, and second, because he believed that in getting a man's money he deprived him of power and position, and left him in a measure helpless and dependent. He was a tyrant; self-exaltation and gratification of his grosser passions with an entire disregard of others rights. [sic] And of all morality, led to his destruction at last. Hyrum Smith was as evil as Joseph, but with less ability; he had, I think a little more caution. Joseph had a wonderful memory. Hyrum was short in that; was a very poor public talker, but a pretty good secret worker. Sidney Rigdon was very close. I could never fairly understand him. While I knew him he appeared like a disappointed man, very retired in his ways. He professed to be a great Biblical historian; he was an eloquent preacher. I can hardly think he intended to be a bad man; would be leader if he could. Bennett was a scoundrel, but very smart. I never became closely acquainted with him. Joseph thought he was using him, and he was using Joseph. They were a bad pair. Bennett wrote out the Nauvoo charter and was perhaps the one who got it granted. It was a wonderful charter; gave too much power; it was a curse to the Mormons. The Higbee boys (or young men) were strong supporters of the Smiths until the death of their father; after that event they became bitter enemies; it was whispered that heir father had been foully dealt by, the Smiths being the cause; I never knew the facts; I believe the boys meant to do right.
Dr. Foster was an Englishman, a fine surgeon and a wholehearted man, when I knew him. He was zealous in the cause, until he found out the wickedness of the Smiths and other leaders. He stood by me faithfully throughout our troubles, left Nauvoo with me and remained near me for more than a year, his family and mine being close friends. He afterwards moved south and I lost track of him. I never knew much of Orson Pratt, as he was off on missions most of the time that I was in Nauvoo. Brigham Young was a deep, quiet, wicked man; kept his thoughts mostly to himself; I never understood him. John D. Lee was a leader in the Danite band; I knew but little of him.
I cannot think of anything that you do not know already. For forty-five years I have kept from thinking (as far as I could) of my horrible experiences in Nauvoo; the dangers through which my family and myself and my brother passed; the disgrace attached to our names, on account of our association with such a gang. Consequently I have forgotten many things that I once knew; cannot bring them to my mind and it is exceedingly painful to me to try to remember anything connected with Mormonism; you must therefore be content with the effort that I have made; with what little information I have given you. I do not wish to be discourteous; but I cannot be interviewed. I have denied many others and must deny you. I trust you will not be offended, I am now in my 78th year and these things annoy me very much. I wish to pass the remainder of my life in quiet, in peace if I can. Since my wife's death I have been very lonesome and unhappy; while she lived I got along very well. I have prospered very much, notwithstanding Joseph's curse; I have done a large medical practice--think I have been fairly successful; am retiring from it as fast as I can.
I will say now, that were you here I could not give you any more information than I have already given. We will therefore drop the matter just here. Wishing you success.
I am yours,
Wm. Law.
In this letter he keenly feels the disgrace of his association with the Mormon fraud. His sensitiveness makes him unjustly condemn himself. But no honorable person will so apply [a] stigma to him. The theory of the Mormon "religion" is calculated to deceive the masses; it is the practical part, the hidden mysteries and treasonable purposes of the institution that are so mischievons [sic]; and when a man drawn by false pretense, and pions [pious?] presumption into such a vortex of iniquity, rids himself of its pollution, and manfully opposes its arrogance; he is to be praised rather than censured.
Mr. Law shows the low cunning of the Church in making a virtue of "cutting off" members who withdraw, in order that the Church may hold up its hands in hold horror at sin, and try to blacken the character of people much their superior in morals, intellect and disposition. The same "dodge" is carried on still, but the public see through the little farce. Mormonism has learned nothing during its infamous history, and is no better now than when it ordered United States troops out of the Territory, and the spirit of its teachings led to murder at Mountain Meadows and many other places. Mr. Law shows that the Nauvoo City charter was a curse to the "Saints"--it gave them political power, as it would be a dreadful curse to Utah, and to none so much as to the Mormons, to bestow Statehood now on a rebellious community hiding from, or protecting those who hide from, or protecting those who hide from the consequences of persistent law-breaking.
With what discrimination and truthfulness does he describe the persons alluded to in his letters. And yet the "half is not told," and never will be until eternity discloses the acts and infidelity and deception of the "church" if eternity will ever do it.
LETTER III.
SHULLSBURG, Wis., January 27, 1887.
Dr. W. Wyl:--Dear Sir: Have just received your very kind letter and hasten to thank you for the good will expressed therein. I suppose you will have left Denver when this reaches that place. Years ago, soon after I left Nauvoo I was annoyed very frequently by receiving letters from parties asking for interviews and items about Nauvoo and the Mormons. I got tired of it all and said that no man or woman should ever interview me on that subject, and none ever shall. I am heartily sick of it all. I wish you all the success you can desire and think you must admit that I have done pretty well by you, and I wish you to believe me when I say that I have forgotten many things, which might be interesting. I cannot help it, would give you more information if I could. Will mention one item in relation to the Book of Mormon. You will find in the Book of Jacob (I think) a strong condemnation of polygamy. Read a little further and you will find; "If I the Lord will raise up a pure seed unto myself. I will command my people," or words to this effect. I have no Book of Mormon and may not quote correctly. This last passage opened a door for Joseph to command the priesthood to get all the wives they could and raise a pure seed to the Lord (I say to the Devil).
Young Joe Smith, President of the "Reorganized," is a "chip off the old block" and would be just as bad as his father if he had the ability. David Whitmer is a crank and always was and so was Martin Harris.
I shall say no more. I wish you God speed, and goodbye.
Yours,
Wm. Law
We can all sympathize with William Law, and thank him that even now his last words will vindicate him. The laws were honest, upright men; William was Joseph's counselor, and a prominent citizen, drawn into Mormonism by guile, their course was honorable, and their characters pure; they were held up as such by Smith and his associates, and were a source of pride to the "church." When, however, Mr. Law saw the immoral conduct of the leaders, learned their true purpose, and realized that their ambition was to subvert our republican principles, and make their adherents a brand of rebels, he and his friends withdrew from the unholy alliance like honest men. Joseph "cursed" him for effect, but--he was not cursed. What though Smith tried to blacken his character and that of his wife? The church has always pursued that course; and does so to this day, to better men and women than the maligners [sic] ever were.
His latest testimony will do much to inform the country as to the beliefs--falsely called religious--designs and secret practices of the Mormon system to blind the eyes of American citizens, destroy our Republican Institutions under the guise of religion, and to build up the most tyrannic theocracy the world has ever seen, or fanatical and corrupt minds ever imagined.
We are authorized to state that Dr. Wyl went to Shullsburg, Wisconsin, and succeeded in having an interview with the good man, William Law. He first visited Judge Law, his son, and by his mediation was introduced to the father. Dr. Wyl assures us that he secured such points and facts as put into the shade everything that has hitherto been published--facts showing the infamous history of the people of Nauvoo, during the reign of the Smiths and their apostles. We are promised the report of the interview which occupies fifty pages in the writer's journal.
>INVESTIGATOR.
SALT LAKE CITY, June 20, 8187 [sic].
THE DAILY TRIBUNE: SALT LAKE CITY, TUESDAY, JULY 3, 1887
THE MORMONS IN NAUVOO.
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Three Letters from William Law on Mormonism.
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AN HONEST MAN'S VIEW AND REMORSE.
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The Nauvoo Hell--Its Deviltries Touched Upon--The Sort of "Kingdom of God" Joseph Smith Fixed up for Himself--A Plain Portrayal.
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EDITOR TRIBUNE: --Dr. Wyl, author of "Mormon Portraits," has made a study of Mormonism in its past and present; has so penetrated its secret machinations and wicked workings, and presented such an array of facts, that his book is the most valuable on the subject that has ever been published. If there are any errors they are only in dates, names and minor details, and of no importance to the history and the facts--mistakes only of memory and small matters that affect nothing. It is to be remembered, however, that Dr. Wyl has not willfully misrepresented anything, but has good foundation even for incidents in which he cannot relate minutest particulars correctly. Considering the time that has elapsed since the history of this "peculiar people" began, the distant or obscure places where the acts were committed, the lying spirit of the fraud, and the character of the people, and the willful perversion of facts recorded by themselves in their own history of the "church," he has produced a wonderful work.
But Dr. Wyl continues the study of the system and produces new testimony, or rather old testimony from parties whom he has ferreted out, who kept themselves aloof from writers and interviewers. In his investigations he is presistent [sic] and cannot be bluffed or turned aside. His knowledge of human nature, is insight and foresight enable him to wind his way into the confidence of his subjects, and draw from them truths that they would otherwise unwillingly reveal.
By the merest accident, while Dr. Wyl was in Denver, preparing his second volume of "Mormon Portraits" he learned that Mr. William Law, whilom [who was?] Jos. Smith's "counselor" in Nauvoo, is still alive, and practicing medicine in Wisconsin. Dr. Wyl set his wits to work on obtaining information from Mr. Law, and to have the pleasure of interviewing him. He wrote to the gentleman and received three letters in reply to his several letter of inquiry. Mr. Law absolutely refused to be interviewed. A fund of valuable, reliable testimony was elicited by this correspondence and subsequently by aid of the mediation of Mr. Law's son an interview was obtained containing the most interesting disclosures, and incidents in the life of Mormonism in Nauvoo while Mr. Law resided there.
We give below a copy of three letters received by Dr. Wyl fro Dr. William Law, in which will be seen the honesty, truthfulness and sincerity of the writer, and that he feels it an eternal disgrace to be mentioned even that he lived among such an infamous community, although opposing their diabolical teachings and corrupt practices. The old gentleman is exceedingly sensitive and really condemns himself for his innocent weakness. In being once with such a treasonable, wicked crew, running under the name of religion.
LETTER I.
SHULLSBURG, Wis., Jan. 7, 1887.
Dr. W. Wyl:--Dear Sir: I received yours of the 24th ult. also your book. Please accept thanks. I have not been well for three or four weeks, hence delay answering. You say it is very important to you to know, "if I am the Law who played such an important part in the Nauvoo events of 1843 and 1844." I am unfortunately the one. I cannot see how you are at all interested in my identity, for I assure you I have retired for ever from the Mormon controversy. When I left Nauvoo I left Mormonism behind, believing that I had done my part faithfully, even at the risk of my life, and believing. also, that the Expositor would continue to do the work it was intended to do. The Smiths thought they had killed it; whereas, by destroying the press, they gave it a new lease of life and extra power to overthrow them and drive their followers from the State. I have looked over your book, and am astonished at the amount of matter you have gathered together; it seems to me that you know at least ten times as much about Mormonism as I do, or ever did. I never resided with the Mormons as a people, only during my short stay in Nauvoo. I think that to have a thorough knowledge of any people it is necessary to live amongst them a considerable length of time. Before reading your book I had but very little knowledge of the family history of the Smiths or Rigdon; had never inquired into the particulars. After I left Nauvoo I did not care or trouble myself about them. I had no personal knowledge of the swindling and other wicked doing at Kirtland, nor did I know anything about the Missouri trouble; was told that their troubles in Ohio and Missouri all grew out of "religious persecution." I went from my home in Canada to Navuoo and found a very poor, but industrious people; they appeared to be moral and religiously disposed; the Smiths and others preached morality and brotherly kindness every Sunday. I saw nothing wrong until after the city charter was obtained. A change was soon apparent; the laws of the country were set at defiance and although outwardly everything was smooth, the under current was most vile and obnoxious. Time revealed to me and to many others much that we had not even suspected. We were kept in the dark as long as possible and held up before the public as examples of the Mormon people. Well, you know what followed. I believe you have endeavored to give a true account or history of the Mormons and Mormonism and I think you have succeeded wonderfully well. Your informants, however, may, now and then, have drawn a little on their imagination, may have reached false conclusions in some instances judged from circumstances and not from facts; doing injustice, perhaps, to the innocent. Where testimony conflicts it is sometimes very difficult to form conclusions. Mormon history is rather a mixed up affair. I would call your attention to one or two little mistakes concerning myself. You say I was a general in the Nauvoo legion. I never was, never held a commission of any kind in it. I sometimes (by request) assisted in drilling the men. having a little knowledge of military tactics. My Brother Wilson held a general's commission from Governor Carlin. My brother was not a Mormon. On page 108 you speak of "swapping wives," and state that you have it from one who knows. Now let me say to you that I never heard of it till I read it in your book. Your informant must have been deceived or willfully lied to you. Joseph Smith never proposed anything of the kind to me or to my wife; both he and Emma knew our sentiments in relation to spiritual wives and polygamy; knew that we were immoveably [sic] opposed to polygamy in any and every form; that we were so subsequent events proved. The story may have grown out of the fact that Joseph offered to furnish his wife, Emma, with a substitute for him, by way of compensation for his neglect of her, on condition that she would forever stop her opposition to polygamy and permit him to enjoy his young wives in peace and keep some of them in her house and to be well treated, etc.
The great mistake of my [life was my] having anything to do with Mormonism. I feel [it to] be a deep disgrace and never speak of it when I can avoid it; for over forty years I have been almost entirely silent on the subject and will so continue after his. Accept my kind regards.
>Wm. Law.
In the foregoing it will be seen that Mr. Law was innocent of the many evils that existed in Nauvoo, hence he can can [sic] tell but little, but that little is true and of value; and being unsuspecting in disposition he does not pretend to know all, but what he knew he knew. He believed for years the "priesthood" tales of persecution, without inquiring or questioning. On "exchange of wives" he was not fully informed, but there is abundant testimony that it was practiced there frequently.
His remarks on the Nauvoo Charter are in consonance with the whole history, spirit and purpose of Mormonism, and it is valuable at the present time when the "Church" and its "heads" are clamoring for Statehood. Let the words of Dr. Law, which are the expression of his experience forty-four years ago, be kept in memory: "I saw nothing wrong until after the City Charter was obtained. A change was soon apparent, the laws of the country were set at defiance, and although outwardly everything was smooth, the undercurrent was vile and obnoxious. Time revealed to me and many others much that we had not suspected." etc. Let our Gentile friends fast read and ponder, and our fellow citizens in Utah be prepared to avert the fearful evil and its consequences of Statehood in Utah as present.
We can see now more clearly as we have seen all along, that Joseph Smith withdrew his proffer to give Emma a "substitute", for it is so stated between the lines in the pseudo "revelation" on polygamy and all corroborative of Dr. Law's Testimony.
Sidney Rigdon "was a disappointed man" indeed! He, the originator of the fraud, the manipulator of Spalding's story into the "Book of Mormon," a visionary and speculator on the teachings and prophecies of Scripture, aspired to be a Church founder and a leader, as were the Campbells, and he used young Joseph Smith, the peep-stone fellow, for that end, but Joe liked the ruse, like the honor himself and kept Sidney back as well as he could. Sidney now and then appeared as the "head," as when he washed Joe's feet in imitation of Jesus washing his followers' feet. Sidney, the originator of Mormonism "was disappointed."
LETTER II
SHULLSBURG, La Fayette Co., Wis. Jan. 20, 1887.
Dr. W. Wyl: Sir: I duly received yours of the 12th inst. I now reply: in looking over your book again. I remain of the opinion that your knowledge of Mormonism or the leaders of it is very extensive and as I said before, far greater than mine. I admit also, that the work may do some good in the world; and yet to me it brings humiliation, deep mortification and pain. The case stands like this: in your book you give a most appalling, black and horrible history (true, no doubt) of the Smiths. Rigdon and many others, leaders and members of the organization, show them guilty of almost every form of crime and abomination, murderers, robbers, thieves, swindlers, perjurers, fornicators, adulterers, polygamists denying the laws of God and man, a people not fit to live with or to associate with in any way. And then you go on to speak of different individuals, amongst them Wilson law and William Law as generals in the Nauvoo Legion, and that William Law also held the office of "vice-president" of the Church. You say, however, that the Laws were a "pretty good kind of men," and "would not be forced to prostitute their wives and daughters" etc. For this admission I thank you. Now see how this looks before the world! Associated with; residing with and doing business among such fiends, no matter how we endeavored to redeem ourselves, how we risked our lives and sacrificed our property, the world will only see the dark side that is given, for somehow it is natural for most people to see the faults and errors of their fellow beings, rather than the good that may be in them. For more than forty years I have kept Mormonism and all my past connected with it, out of my mind, and away from my friends and acquaintances so far as possible. Have never read any of the books published about the Mormons; never read Bennett's book, have kept no papers published in Nauvoo; haven't a scrap of any kind; the only number of the Expositor I had, some one carried off. My wife (at an early day) burned up the Book of Mormon and the Doctrine and Covenants. She said no Mormon work could find a place in her house. We have lived down a great measure the disgrace following our unfortunate association with the Mormons. We committed a great error, but no crime. This is my consolation, that we only erred in judgment.
I said that in your book you spoke rather favorably of my brother and myself; of my wife, however, your remarks were far from flattering. She, were she living, would consider them insulting. You said she was much "admired and desired" by Smith; that Smith admired and lusted after many men's wives and daughters, is a fact, no doubt; but they could not help that. They or most of them considered his admiration an insult, and treated him with scorn. In return for this scorn, he generally managed to blacken their reputations--see the case of your friend, Mrs. Pratt, a good, virtuous woman. I will now take the trouble of showing you just how my wife and Joe Smith stood toward each other. Sometime in 1843 (I think), he ordered the Twelve to meet, and cut off from the Church William Law and his wife, also Dr. Foster, and to publish it in he Times aud Seasons at once. They did so. A few days after I saw the notice in the paper, I think it was the same day, met Elder John Taylor and remarked to him: You have been cutting off my wife and me from the Church. I asked him what the charges were, and who had made them. He said: "Brother Joseph ordered you cut off." He said further that Joseph had known for a long time that we were apostates, and further that my wife had been speaking evil of him for a long time; he had found it out, said she had slandered him, had lied about him without cause. I said: "Elder Taylor, my wife would not speak evil of yourself or anyone else without good cause. Joseph is the liar and not she, and as to the cutting off, it is illegal and contrary to the laws of the Church to cut off or condemn without a trial, simply by the command of a base tyrant, but you can tell His Majesty that we withdrew from the Church months ago; so his cutting off comes too late." My wife is dead over four years, and a truer, purer, more faithful wife never lived. My brother Wilson is also dead, these ten years. He stood by me in all my troubles at Nauvoo, risking his life, defying the "Destroying Angels" and all the rest of them. You would not wonder then that the reputation and memory of such a wife and such a brother, should be as dear to me as life itself.
You asked me if the Expositor continued? No. When I spoke of its work continuing. I meant that its destruction gave it a new life and power to destroy its destroyers. For it was the chief factor in bringing about the death of the Smiths, and the expulsion of the Mormons from the State of Illinois. As to Emma's deathbed declaration, it was like her life, FALSE. If she ever had any good in her, Smith so demoralized her, that she had none left. Anything for money and power and gratification while she lived, and the same to her sons after her. She and the Smiths, as many as I knew, were infidels, if not atheists, at least I believe so.
As to the history of Joseph Smith, I have but little to add to your knowledge of him. One trait was his jealousy of his friends, lest any of them should be esteemed before him in the eyes of the Church or of the public. He would destroy his best friend for the sake of a few hundred dollars. It was his policy to get away with a man's money, first, because he wanted it, and second, because he believed that in getting a man's money he deprived him of power and position, and left him in a measure helpless and dependent. He was a tyrant; self-exaltation and gratification of his grosser passions with an entire disregard of others rights. [sic] And of all morality, led to his destruction at last. Hyrum Smith was as evil as Joseph, but with less ability; he had, I think a little more caution. Joseph had a wonderful memory. Hyrum was short in that; was a very poor public talker, but a pretty good secret worker. Sidney Rigdon was very close. I could never fairly understand him. While I knew him he appeared like a disappointed man, very retired in his ways. He professed to be a great Biblical historian; he was an eloquent preacher. I can hardly think he intended to be a bad man; would be leader if he could. Bennett was a scoundrel, but very smart. I never became closely acquainted with him. Joseph thought he was using him, and he was using Joseph. They were a bad pair. Bennett wrote out the Nauvoo charter and was perhaps the one who got it granted. It was a wonderful charter; gave too much power; it was a curse to the Mormons. The Higbee boys (or young men) were strong supporters of the Smiths until the death of their father; after that event they became bitter enemies; it was whispered that heir father had been foully dealt by, the Smiths being the cause; I never knew the facts; I believe the boys meant to do right.
Dr. Foster was an Englishman, a fine surgeon and a wholehearted man, when I knew him. He was zealous in the cause, until he found out the wickedness of the Smiths and other leaders. He stood by me faithfully throughout our troubles, left Nauvoo with me and remained near me for more than a year, his family and mine being close friends. He afterwards moved south and I lost track of him. I never knew much of Orson Pratt, as he was off on missions most of the time that I was in Nauvoo. Brigham Young was a deep, quiet, wicked man; kept his thoughts mostly to himself; I never understood him. John D. Lee was a leader in the Danite band; I knew but little of him.
I cannot think of anything that you do not know already. For forty-five years I have kept from thinking (as far as I could) of my horrible experiences in Nauvoo; the dangers through which my family and myself and my brother passed; the disgrace attached to our names, on account of our association with such a gang. Consequently I have forgotten many things that I once knew; cannot bring them to my mind and it is exceedingly painful to me to try to remember anything connected with Mormonism; you must therefore be content with the effort that I have made; with what little information I have given you. I do not wish to be discourteous; but I cannot be interviewed. I have denied many others and must deny you. I trust you will not be offended, I am now in my 78th year and these things annoy me very much. I wish to pass the remainder of my life in quiet, in peace if I can. Since my wife's death I have been very lonesome and unhappy; while she lived I got along very well. I have prospered very much, notwithstanding Joseph's curse; I have done a large medical practice--think I have been fairly successful; am retiring from it as fast as I can.
I will say now, that were you here I could not give you any more information than I have already given. We will therefore drop the matter just here. Wishing you success.
I am yours,
Wm. Law.
In this letter he keenly feels the disgrace of his association with the Mormon fraud. His sensitiveness makes him unjustly condemn himself. But no honorable person will so apply [a] stigma to him. The theory of the Mormon "religion" is calculated to deceive the masses; it is the practical part, the hidden mysteries and treasonable purposes of the institution that are so mischievons [sic]; and when a man drawn by false pretense, and pions [pious?] presumption into such a vortex of iniquity, rids himself of its pollution, and manfully opposes its arrogance; he is to be praised rather than censured.
Mr. Law shows the low cunning of the Church in making a virtue of "cutting off" members who withdraw, in order that the Church may hold up its hands in hold horror at sin, and try to blacken the character of people much their superior in morals, intellect and disposition. The same "dodge" is carried on still, but the public see through the little farce. Mormonism has learned nothing during its infamous history, and is no better now than when it ordered United States troops out of the Territory, and the spirit of its teachings led to murder at Mountain Meadows and many other places. Mr. Law shows that the Nauvoo City charter was a curse to the "Saints"--it gave them political power, as it would be a dreadful curse to Utah, and to none so much as to the Mormons, to bestow Statehood now on a rebellious community hiding from, or protecting those who hide from, or protecting those who hide from the consequences of persistent law-breaking.
With what discrimination and truthfulness does he describe the persons alluded to in his letters. And yet the "half is not told," and never will be until eternity discloses the acts and infidelity and deception of the "church" if eternity will ever do it.
LETTER III.
SHULLSBURG, Wis., January 27, 1887.
Dr. W. Wyl:--Dear Sir: Have just received your very kind letter and hasten to thank you for the good will expressed therein. I suppose you will have left Denver when this reaches that place. Years ago, soon after I left Nauvoo I was annoyed very frequently by receiving letters from parties asking for interviews and items about Nauvoo and the Mormons. I got tired of it all and said that no man or woman should ever interview me on that subject, and none ever shall. I am heartily sick of it all. I wish you all the success you can desire and think you must admit that I have done pretty well by you, and I wish you to believe me when I say that I have forgotten many things, which might be interesting. I cannot help it, would give you more information if I could. Will mention one item in relation to the Book of Mormon. You will find in the Book of Jacob (I think) a strong condemnation of polygamy. Read a little further and you will find; "If I the Lord will raise up a pure seed unto myself. I will command my people," or words to this effect. I have no Book of Mormon and may not quote correctly. This last passage opened a door for Joseph to command the priesthood to get all the wives they could and raise a pure seed to the Lord (I say to the Devil).
Young Joe Smith, President of the "Reorganized," is a "chip off the old block" and would be just as bad as his father if he had the ability. David Whitmer is a crank and always was and so was Martin Harris.
I shall say no more. I wish you God speed, and goodbye.
Yours,
Wm. Law
We can all sympathize with William Law, and thank him that even now his last words will vindicate him. The laws were honest, upright men; William was Joseph's counselor, and a prominent citizen, drawn into Mormonism by guile, their course was honorable, and their characters pure; they were held up as such by Smith and his associates, and were a source of pride to the "church." When, however, Mr. Law saw the immoral conduct of the leaders, learned their true purpose, and realized that their ambition was to subvert our republican principles, and make their adherents a brand of rebels, he and his friends withdrew from the unholy alliance like honest men. Joseph "cursed" him for effect, but--he was not cursed. What though Smith tried to blacken his character and that of his wife? The church has always pursued that course; and does so to this day, to better men and women than the maligners [sic] ever were.
His latest testimony will do much to inform the country as to the beliefs--falsely called religious--designs and secret practices of the Mormon system to blind the eyes of American citizens, destroy our Republican Institutions under the guise of religion, and to build up the most tyrannic theocracy the world has ever seen, or fanatical and corrupt minds ever imagined.
We are authorized to state that Dr. Wyl went to Shullsburg, Wisconsin, and succeeded in having an interview with the good man, William Law. He first visited Judge Law, his son, and by his mediation was introduced to the father. Dr. Wyl assures us that he secured such points and facts as put into the shade everything that has hitherto been published--facts showing the infamous history of the people of Nauvoo, during the reign of the Smiths and their apostles. We are promised the report of the interview which occupies fifty pages in the writer's journal.
>INVESTIGATOR.
SALT LAKE CITY, June 20, 8187 [sic].
Reprobation or Reincarnation
For, behold, the Lord your Redeemer suffered death in the flesh; wherefore he suffered the pain of all men, that all men might repent and come unto him.
And he hath risen AGAIN from the dead, that he might bring all men unto him, on conditions of repentance. (D&C 18:11-12)
Wherefore, the Almighty God gave his Only Begotten Son, as it is written in those scriptures which have been given of him.
He suffered temptations but gave no heed unto them. He was crucified, died, and rose AGAIN the third day;(D&C 20:21-23)
If so, wo shall come upon you; but if not so, then cast about your eyes and begin to believe in the Son of God, that he will come to redeem his people, and that he shall suffer and die to atone for their sins; and that he shall rise AGAIN from the dead, which shall bring to pass the resurrection, that all men shall stand before him, to be judged at the last and judgment day, according to their works.(Alma 33:22)
Know ye that ye must come to the knowledge of your fathers, and repent of all your sins and iniquities, and believe in Jesus Christ, that he is the Son of God, and that he was slain by the Jews, and by the power of the Father he hath risen AGAIN, whereby he hath gained the victory over the grave; and also in him is the sting of death swallowed up.(Mormon 7:5)
From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised AGAIN the third day.(Matthew 16:21)
But after I am risen AGAIN, I will go before you into Galilee.(MATTHEW 26:32)
OTHER REFERENCES INCLUDE MATTHEW 17:9,23, Acts 13:33,37, Acts 17:3, 1 Corinthians 15:4, 2 Corinthians 5:15, 1 Thessalonians 4:14, Romans 4:25, Romans 8:34.
The dictionary defines the word 'again' as,
"A second time; once more. All the uses of this word carry in them the ideas of return or repetition."
"Joseph always told us that we would have to pass by sentinels that are placed between us and our Father and God. Then, of course, we are conducted along from this probation to other probations, or from one dispensation to another, by those who conducted those dispensations." (JD 6:63)
"What I do not to-day, when the sun goes down, I lay down to sleep, which is typical of death; and in the morning I rise and commence my work where I left it yesterday. That course is typical of the probations we take. But suppose that I do not improve my time to-day, I wake up to-morrow and find myself in the rear; and then, if I do not improve upon that day, and again lay down to sleep, on awaking, I find myself still in the rear. This day's work is typical of this probation, and the sleep of every night is typical of death, and rising in the morning is typical of the resurrection. They are days labours, and it is for us to be faithful to-day, tomorrow, and every day." (JD 4:329)
Orson Pratt said: "And thus, all the different portions of the earth have been and will be disposed of to the lawful heirs; while those who cannot prove their heirship to be legal, of who cannot prove that they have received any portion of the earth by promise, will be cast out into some other kingdom or world, where, if they ever get an inheritance, they will have to earn it by keeping the law of meekness during another probation." (JD 1:332-333)
Joseph Smith said,
"And I heard a voice from heaven saying blessed are the dead who die in the Lord for from henceforth they do rest from their labors and their works do follow them-They rest from their labors for a long time and yet their work is held in reserve for them, that they are permitted to do the same works after they receive a resurrection for their bodies, but we shall leave this subject of the Terrestrial bodies for another time in order to treat upon them more fully."(Words of Joseph Smith, Ehat, page 42)
Heber C Kimball: "How many shapes do you suppose you are put into before you become Saints, or before you become perfect and sanctified to enter into the celestial glory of God? You have got to be like that clay in the hands of the potter. Do you not know that the Lord directed the Prophet anciently, to go down to the potter's house to see a miracle on the wheel? Suppose the Potter takes a lump of clay, and putting it on the wheel, goes to work to form it into a vessel, and works it out this way, and that way, and the other way, but the clay is refractory and snappish; he still trys [tries] it, but it will break, and snap, and snarl, and thus the potter will work it and work it until he is satisfied he cannot bring it into the shape he wants, and it mars upon the wheel; he takes his tool, then, and cuts it off the wheel, and throws it into the mill to be ground over again, until it becomes passive, (don't you think you will go to hell if you are not passive?) and after it is ground there so many days, and it becomes passive, he takes the same lump, and makes of it a vessel unto honor. Now do you see into that, brethren? I know the potters can. I tell you, brethren, if you are not passive you will have to go into that mill, and perhaps have to grind there one thousand years, and then the Gospel will be offered to you again, and then if you will not accept of it, and become passive, you will have to go into the mill again, and thus you will have offers of salvation from time to time, until all the human family, will, except the sons of perdition, are redeemed. The spirits of men will have the Gospel as we do, and they are to be judged according to men in the flesh. Let us be passive, and take a course that will be perfectly submissive.(JD 1: talk begins on page 160)
Brigham Young: "Then I went down to the potter's house, and, behold, he wrought a work on the wheels. And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hands of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it." The clay that marred in the potter's hands was thrown back into the unprepared portion, to be prepared over again. So it will be with every wicked man and woman, and every wicked nation, kingdom, and government upon earth, sooner or later; they will be thrown back to the native element from which they originated, to be worked over again, and be prepared to enjoy some sort of a kingdom." (JD 2: talk begins pg.121)
"If you suffer the opposite of this to take possession of your tabernacles, it will hurt you, and all that is associated with you, and blast, and strike with mildew, until your tabernacle, which was created to continue throughout an endless duration, will be decomposed, and go back to its native elements, to be ground over again like the refractory clay that has spoiled in the hand of the potter, it must be worked over again until it shall become passive, and yield to the potter's wish." (BY JD 2: begin 129)
Heber C Kimball: "Comparing us to clay that is in the hands of the potter, if that clay is passive, I have power as a potter to mould it and make it into a vessel unto honor. Who is to mould these vessels? Is it God Himself in person, or is it His servants, His potters, or journeymen, in company with those He has placed to oversee the work? The great Master Potter dictates His servants, and it is for them to carry out His purposes, and make vessels according to his designs; and when they have done the work, they deliver it up to the Master for His acceptance; and if their works are not good, He does not accept them; the only works He accepts, are those that are prepared according to the design He gave. God will not be trifled with; neither will His servants; their words have got to be fulfilled, and they are the men that are to mould you, and tell you what shape to move in.
I do not know that I can compare it better than by the potter's business. It forms a good comparison. This is the course you must pursue, and I know of no other way that God has prepared for you to become sanctified, and moulded, and fashioned, until you become modelled to the likeness of the Son of God, by those who are placed to lead you. This is a lesson you have to learn as well as myself. When I know that I am doing just as I am told by him who is placed to lead this people, I am then a happy man, I am filled with peace, and can go about my business with joy and pleasure; I can lie down and rise again in peace, and be filled with gladness by night and by day. But when I have not done the things that are right, my conscience gnaws upon my feelings. This is the course for me to take. If it is the course for me to take, it is the course for every other Elder in Israel to take-it does not matter who he is, or where he came from whether he be an American, an Englishman, Irishman, Frenchman or German, Jew or Gentile to this you have got to bow, and you have got to bow down like the clay in the hands of the potter, that suffers the potter to mould it according to his own pleasure. You have all got to come to this and if you do not come to it at this time, as sure as the sun ever rose and set, you will be cut from the wheel, and thrown back into the mill. You have come from the mill, and you have been there grinding. For what purpose? To bring you into a passive condition. You have been gathered from the nations of the earth, from among the kindreds, tongues, and peoples of the world, to the Valley of the Great Salt Lake, to purify and sanctify yourselves, and become like the passive clay in the hands of the potter. Now suppose I subject myself enough, in the hands of the potter, to be shaped according as he was dictated by the Great Master potter, that rules over all things in heaven and on earth, he would make me into a vessel of honor. There are many vessels that are destroyed after they have been moulded and shaped. Why? Because they are not contented with the shape the potter has given them, but straightway put themselves into a shape to please themselves; therefore they are beyond understanding what God designs, and they destroy themselves by the power of their own agency, for this is given to every man and woman, to do just as they please. That is all right, and all just. Well, then, you have to go through a great many modellings and shapes, then you have to be glazed and burned; and even in the burning, some vessels crack. What makes them crack? Because they are snappish; they would not crack, if they were not snappish and wilful. If you go to the potteries in Staffordshire, England, where the finest china ware is manufactured, you will see them take the coarsest materials about the pottery, and make a thing in the shape of a half bushel; then put the finest ware in these to secure it from danger in the burning operation. All the fine ware made in Europe and in China, is burnt in this kind of vessels. After they are done with, they are cast away-they are vessels of wrath fitted for destruction. So God takes the wicked, and makes them protect the righteous, in the process of sanctifying, and burning, and purifying, and preparing them, and making them fit for the Master's use. These saggars, as they are called, are compounded of refuse articles that have been cast out; so even they are good for something. The wicked are of use, for they are a rod in the hands of the Almighty to scourge the righteous, and prepare them for their Master's use, that they may enter into the celestial world, and be crowned with glory in His presence." (JD 2:150)
"We have not as yet any durable location; we are merely probationers in this present state, and we shall always be so, until we obtain a permanent exaltation, by following in the footsteps of our God. He is our Father and our God, and His Son Jesus Christ is our Savior, and the Holy Ghost is to be our comforter, and will comfort all those who will prepare their tabernacles as fit temples for him to dwell in.
When the Holy Ghost dwells in us it will enable us to discern between right and wrong, will show us things to come, and bring things to our remembrance, and will make every one of this people prophets and prophetesses of God. We have acknowledged brother Brigham to be our leader, and he holds the keys of the kingdom of heaven here on the earth. Whether people believe it or not, he is God's representative in the flesh, and is the mouth-piece of God unto us. Brother Joseph Smith many a time said to brother Brigham and myself, and to others, that he was a representative of God to us, to teach and direct us and reprove the wrong doers, He has past [sic] behind the veil, but there never will a person in this dispensation enter into the celestial glory without his approbation. Brother Brigham is brother Joseph's rightful successor, and he has his Counselors, and together they are an earthly pattern of the divine order of government. Those men are God's agents, His servants, and are witnesses of your covenants, which you will have to fulfil. And what you do not fulfil in this year you will have to do in the next; and what are not then fulfilled will have to be in some future time..... Brother Dan Jones has been talking to you about the clay in the hands of the potter. If you get hold of a lump of clay that is snappish and wilful, and not willing that you should twist it into any shape or form, what is the use of working it? You throw it back into the mill and let it be ground again, and then take it out and make of it a vessel unto honor.
Perhaps some do not really believe that when a man is thrown back into the mill, or goes into the spirit world, that he ever will be redeemed, but he will, if he has not sinned against the Holy Ghost. He will be ground and worked up until he becomes passive, and then God, through His servants, will redeem him, and make him a vessel unto honor. A great many will go to hell, and the very men that are preaching to you now will visit you and offer you salvation, after you have laid there, perhaps, thousands of years, for you must stay in the mill until you are passive and obedient. Jeremiah, at the command of God, went to the potter's house where the potter was molding the clay, and when he went to turn it on the wheel it was refractory and rebellious: and he worked at it and sweat over it, but after all it was rebellious, and fell down on the wheel. What did he do then? He cut it off from the wheel and threw it back into the mill, and after he had ground it awhile, he took it out and made of it a vessel unto honor; so of the same lump he made a vessel unto dishonor, and one unto honor. Did the potter make it dishonorable? No, the vessel made itself unto dishonor; and the next time it was pliable and passive, and the potter made of it a vessel unto honor, because it was honorable and submissive. I wished to make these few remarks, because they touch upon things that are on my mind all the time. And if you wish to be Saints, for God's sake be Saints, and if you wish to be devils, be devils, and get out of this place; and let those that will be Saints, be Saints; and let them commune together and carry out the purpose of God. I would rather have three hundred men and women that are perfectly amenable to the authorities of this Church, than a numerous people that are rebellious; and I could do more to bring about the purposes of God, and do it ten times quicker, with a few faithful persons, than with hosts of the wicked."(JD 4:begins pg.119)
"I frequently talk about the clay in the hands of the potter. The Lord said to Jeremiah, "I will show you a thing that I cannot tell you. Go down to the potter's house, and I will be there, but you shall not see me; and I will make that potter mar a vessel." Jeremiah went down to the potter's house, and the Lord showed him the very thing he had promised; for the potter undertook to make a vessel, and the clay marred in his hands, and he cut it off the wheel and threw it into the mill; "and now," says he, "take it out again and shape it into a ball, and turn it into a vessel of honour." He did that very thing, though it is not written. The Scriptures say that out of the same lump he made a vessel first unto dishonour, and then unto honour.
I used to preach upon that in Nauvoo, and Joseph said it was the true interpretation. Now, Jeremiah was a man like brother Brigham, brother Heber, Amasa, and thousands of the servants of God that were valiant. There are thousands here that have never seen a potter's house. But if I was in one, I could take a lump of clay and show you; and perhaps, being out of practice, it would mar in my hands: then I would throw it back into the mill and grind it, and afterwards I would take it up again and make a vessel unto honour. And thus the Lord said to Jeremiah, "As you see that clay mar in the hands of the potter, so shall it be with the house of Israel. They shall go and be in prison till I bring them out and make them vessels unto honour." That is to be done in the latter days, when the Lord is to say to the dry bones, "Come forth," and so on. Go and read the Bible, and you will learn about it. It will be just so with thousands and tens of thousands who will embrace "Mormonism:" they will go back into the mill again, through disobedience." (JD 5:begin pg.271)
(HC 5:403 "We also heard him (Joseph) say that God had revealed unto him that any man who ever committed adultery in either of his probations that that man could never be raised to the highest exaltation in the celestial glory and that he (Joseph) felt anxious with regard to himself and he inquired of the Lord and the Lord told him that he, Joseph, had never committed adultery (see D&C 132:41).
Heber C. Kimball: " If you do not cultivate yourselves, and cultivate your spirits in this state of existence, it is just as true as there is a God that liveth, you will have to go into another state of existence, and bring your spirits into subjection there. Now you may reflect upon it, you never will obtain your resurrected bodies, until you bring your spirits into subjection. I am not talking to this earthly house of mine, neither am I talking to your bodies, but I am speaking to your spirits. I am not talking as to people who are not in the house. Are not your spirits in the house? Are not your bodies your houses, your tabernacles or temples, and places for your spirits? Look at it; reflect upon it. If you keep your spirits trained according to the wisdom and fear of God, you will attain to the salvation of both body and spirit. I ask, then, if it is your spirits that must be brought into subjection? It is; and if you do not do that in these bodies, you will have to go into another estate to do it. You have got to train yourselves according to the law of God, or you will never obtain your resurrected bodies. Mark it! You do not think of these things, you only think of to-day." (JD 1:355-356, Nov. 14, 1852)
Orson Hyde received a revelation in about February 1839 which was recorded in the diary of Joseph Allen Stout: “I was on my return from Richmond landing with a span of mares and wagon, belonging to B. Jones, and on the wide prarie I saw a man walking behind me. I reined in the team to let him overtake me, and who should it be but Orson Hyde, who had apostatized in the fuss, but had seen a vision in which it was made known to him that if he did not make immediate restitution to the Quorum of the Twelve, he would be cut off and all his posterity, and that the curse of Cain would be upon him." (Autobiography and Journal of Joseph Allen Stout, Utah State Historical Society, pg. 9-10)
Parley P, Pratt's Autobiography June 27, 1844, "Lift up your head and rejoice; for behold! it is well with my servants Joseph and Hyrum. My servant Joseph still holds the keys of my kingdom in this dispensation, and he shall stand in due time on the earth, in the flesh, and fulfill that to which he is appointed...(Autobiography of PPP,pg.294, 1985 edition)
Diary of Orson F. Whitney "3 June 1889: This evening I heard that Pres. Woodruff, in a meeting at Manti, a few days ago, publicly declared that the doctrine of reincarnation, that is one spirit having several bodies, to be false; that he was Wilford Woodruff and no one else, &c &c. Alright, bro. Woodruff, if you really said it, it is between you and the Lord. I believe it to be a true doctrine, & have for the last (word cut out of entry) years." (Diary of OFW, 3 June 1889, Church Archives)
OFW Diary: "8 June 1889: During our talks he (Lorenzo Snow) told me that his sister, the late Eliza R. Snow Smith was a firm believer in the principle of reincarnation and that she claimed to have received it from Joseph the Prophet, her husband. He said he saw nothing unreasonable in it, and could believe it, if it came to him from the Lord or his oracle." (ibid 8 June 1889)
Orson Pratt: "I heard brother Young say that Jesus had a body of flesh and bones, before he came (to earth and) he was born of the Virgin Mary, it was so contrary to every revelation given." (Minutes of meeting on April 5, 1860, BY Papers)
"Joseph always told us that we would have to pass by sentinels that are placed between us and our Father and God. Then, of course, we are conducted along from this probation to other probations, or from one dispensation to another, by those who conducted those dispensations." (Journal of Discourses 6:63)
"God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens! That is the great secret." (King Follet Discourse, 'Discourses of the Prophet Joseph Smith', pg 262)
"We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil, so that you may see." (King Follet Discourse, 'Discourses of the Prophet Joseph Smith', pg 263-264)
"The scriptures inform us that Jesus said, as the Father hath power in himself, even so hath the son power - to do what? Why what the Father did. The answer is obvious - in a manner to lay down his body and take it up again. Jesus, what are you going to do? To lay down my life as my Father did, and take it up again. Do you believe it? If you do not believe it you do not believe the Bible. The scriptures say it, and I defy all the learning and wisdom and all the combined powers of earth and hell together to refute it. Here, then, is eternal life - to know the only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all gods have done before you, namely, by going from one small degree to another, and from a small capacity to a great one; from grace to grace, from exaltation to exaltation, until you attain to the resurrection of the dead, and are able to dwell in everlasting burnings, and to sit in glory, as do those who sit enthroned in everlasting power. And, I want you to know that God, in the last days, while certain individuals are proclaiming his name, is not trifling with you or me." (King Follet Discourse, 'Discourses of the Prophet Joseph Smith', pg 263-264)
"What did Jesus Do? 'Why I do the things I saw my father do when worlds came rolling into existence, my father worked out His kingdom with fear and trembling, and I must do the same; and when I get my kingdom, I shall present it to my father so that He may obtain kingdom upon kingdom, an it will exalt Him in glory, He will then take a higher exaltation, and I will take His place, and thereby become exalted myself.' So that Jesus treads in the tracks of His father, and inherits what God did before; and God is thus glorified and exalted in the salvation and exaltation of all His children. It is plain beyond disputation, and you thus learn the First Principles of the Gospel, about which so much has been said." (King Follet Discourse, 'Discourses of the Prophet Joseph Smith', pg 263-264)
"Brother Willard Richards and I wrote a lengthy article on Election and Reprobation for the Millennial Star." ('The Journal of Brigham Young', Friday, January 1, 1841)
"I preached at the Music Hall twice, on Election and Reprobation." ('The Journal of Brigham Young', Sunday, January 24, 1841)
"Many of you, no doubt, have concluded that the doctrine of election and reprobation is true, and you do so with propriety, for it is true; it is a scriptural doctrine." (Journal of Discourses 7:282-290)
"I might enumerate many more instances, and say that they are all right so far as they go in truth. The doctrine of freewill and conditional salvation, the doctrine of free grace and unconditional salvation, the doctrine of fore ordination and reprobation, and many more that I have not time to enumerate, can all be fully and satisfactorily proved by the Scriptures, and are true." (Journal of Discourses 7:282-290)
"I told you that the doctrine of election and reprobation is a true doctrine." (Journal of Discourses 7:289)
"Others were tortured, not accepting deliverance, that they might obtain a better resurrection." (See Heb. 11th chap., part of the 35th verse.)
A question may be asked--"Will mothers have their children in eternity?" Yes! yes! Mothers, you shall have your children; for they shall have eternal life; for their debt is paid. There is no damnation awaits them, for they are in the spirit. But as the child dies, so shall it rise from the dead, and be for ever living in the learning of God. It will never grow: it will still be the child, in the same precise form as it appeared before it died out of its mother's arms, but possessing all the intelligence of a God. Children dwell in the mansions of glory and exercise power, but appear in the same form as when on earth. Eternity is full of thrones, upon which dwell thousands of children reigning on thrones of glory, with not one cubit added to their stature. (King Follett discourse)
Mothers you shall have your children, for they shall have eternal life: for their debt is paid, there is no damnation awaits them, for they are in the spirit.--As the child dies, so shall it rise from the dead and be forever living in the learning of God, it shall be the child, the same as it was before it died out of your arms. Children dwell and exercise power in the same form as they laid them down. The baptism of water without the baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost attending it is of no use: they are necessary. He must be born of water and the spirits in order to get into the kingdom of God.
I understand them. I said no man can commit the unpardonable sin after the dissolution of the body, but they must do it in this world: (King Follett discourse)
(You cannot be accountable for sin as a spirit.)
Take it or leave it.
And he hath risen AGAIN from the dead, that he might bring all men unto him, on conditions of repentance. (D&C 18:11-12)
Wherefore, the Almighty God gave his Only Begotten Son, as it is written in those scriptures which have been given of him.
He suffered temptations but gave no heed unto them. He was crucified, died, and rose AGAIN the third day;(D&C 20:21-23)
If so, wo shall come upon you; but if not so, then cast about your eyes and begin to believe in the Son of God, that he will come to redeem his people, and that he shall suffer and die to atone for their sins; and that he shall rise AGAIN from the dead, which shall bring to pass the resurrection, that all men shall stand before him, to be judged at the last and judgment day, according to their works.(Alma 33:22)
Know ye that ye must come to the knowledge of your fathers, and repent of all your sins and iniquities, and believe in Jesus Christ, that he is the Son of God, and that he was slain by the Jews, and by the power of the Father he hath risen AGAIN, whereby he hath gained the victory over the grave; and also in him is the sting of death swallowed up.(Mormon 7:5)
From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised AGAIN the third day.(Matthew 16:21)
But after I am risen AGAIN, I will go before you into Galilee.(MATTHEW 26:32)
OTHER REFERENCES INCLUDE MATTHEW 17:9,23, Acts 13:33,37, Acts 17:3, 1 Corinthians 15:4, 2 Corinthians 5:15, 1 Thessalonians 4:14, Romans 4:25, Romans 8:34.
The dictionary defines the word 'again' as,
"A second time; once more. All the uses of this word carry in them the ideas of return or repetition."
"Joseph always told us that we would have to pass by sentinels that are placed between us and our Father and God. Then, of course, we are conducted along from this probation to other probations, or from one dispensation to another, by those who conducted those dispensations." (JD 6:63)
"What I do not to-day, when the sun goes down, I lay down to sleep, which is typical of death; and in the morning I rise and commence my work where I left it yesterday. That course is typical of the probations we take. But suppose that I do not improve my time to-day, I wake up to-morrow and find myself in the rear; and then, if I do not improve upon that day, and again lay down to sleep, on awaking, I find myself still in the rear. This day's work is typical of this probation, and the sleep of every night is typical of death, and rising in the morning is typical of the resurrection. They are days labours, and it is for us to be faithful to-day, tomorrow, and every day." (JD 4:329)
Orson Pratt said: "And thus, all the different portions of the earth have been and will be disposed of to the lawful heirs; while those who cannot prove their heirship to be legal, of who cannot prove that they have received any portion of the earth by promise, will be cast out into some other kingdom or world, where, if they ever get an inheritance, they will have to earn it by keeping the law of meekness during another probation." (JD 1:332-333)
Joseph Smith said,
"And I heard a voice from heaven saying blessed are the dead who die in the Lord for from henceforth they do rest from their labors and their works do follow them-They rest from their labors for a long time and yet their work is held in reserve for them, that they are permitted to do the same works after they receive a resurrection for their bodies, but we shall leave this subject of the Terrestrial bodies for another time in order to treat upon them more fully."(Words of Joseph Smith, Ehat, page 42)
Heber C Kimball: "How many shapes do you suppose you are put into before you become Saints, or before you become perfect and sanctified to enter into the celestial glory of God? You have got to be like that clay in the hands of the potter. Do you not know that the Lord directed the Prophet anciently, to go down to the potter's house to see a miracle on the wheel? Suppose the Potter takes a lump of clay, and putting it on the wheel, goes to work to form it into a vessel, and works it out this way, and that way, and the other way, but the clay is refractory and snappish; he still trys [tries] it, but it will break, and snap, and snarl, and thus the potter will work it and work it until he is satisfied he cannot bring it into the shape he wants, and it mars upon the wheel; he takes his tool, then, and cuts it off the wheel, and throws it into the mill to be ground over again, until it becomes passive, (don't you think you will go to hell if you are not passive?) and after it is ground there so many days, and it becomes passive, he takes the same lump, and makes of it a vessel unto honor. Now do you see into that, brethren? I know the potters can. I tell you, brethren, if you are not passive you will have to go into that mill, and perhaps have to grind there one thousand years, and then the Gospel will be offered to you again, and then if you will not accept of it, and become passive, you will have to go into the mill again, and thus you will have offers of salvation from time to time, until all the human family, will, except the sons of perdition, are redeemed. The spirits of men will have the Gospel as we do, and they are to be judged according to men in the flesh. Let us be passive, and take a course that will be perfectly submissive.(JD 1: talk begins on page 160)
Brigham Young: "Then I went down to the potter's house, and, behold, he wrought a work on the wheels. And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hands of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it." The clay that marred in the potter's hands was thrown back into the unprepared portion, to be prepared over again. So it will be with every wicked man and woman, and every wicked nation, kingdom, and government upon earth, sooner or later; they will be thrown back to the native element from which they originated, to be worked over again, and be prepared to enjoy some sort of a kingdom." (JD 2: talk begins pg.121)
"If you suffer the opposite of this to take possession of your tabernacles, it will hurt you, and all that is associated with you, and blast, and strike with mildew, until your tabernacle, which was created to continue throughout an endless duration, will be decomposed, and go back to its native elements, to be ground over again like the refractory clay that has spoiled in the hand of the potter, it must be worked over again until it shall become passive, and yield to the potter's wish." (BY JD 2: begin 129)
Heber C Kimball: "Comparing us to clay that is in the hands of the potter, if that clay is passive, I have power as a potter to mould it and make it into a vessel unto honor. Who is to mould these vessels? Is it God Himself in person, or is it His servants, His potters, or journeymen, in company with those He has placed to oversee the work? The great Master Potter dictates His servants, and it is for them to carry out His purposes, and make vessels according to his designs; and when they have done the work, they deliver it up to the Master for His acceptance; and if their works are not good, He does not accept them; the only works He accepts, are those that are prepared according to the design He gave. God will not be trifled with; neither will His servants; their words have got to be fulfilled, and they are the men that are to mould you, and tell you what shape to move in.
I do not know that I can compare it better than by the potter's business. It forms a good comparison. This is the course you must pursue, and I know of no other way that God has prepared for you to become sanctified, and moulded, and fashioned, until you become modelled to the likeness of the Son of God, by those who are placed to lead you. This is a lesson you have to learn as well as myself. When I know that I am doing just as I am told by him who is placed to lead this people, I am then a happy man, I am filled with peace, and can go about my business with joy and pleasure; I can lie down and rise again in peace, and be filled with gladness by night and by day. But when I have not done the things that are right, my conscience gnaws upon my feelings. This is the course for me to take. If it is the course for me to take, it is the course for every other Elder in Israel to take-it does not matter who he is, or where he came from whether he be an American, an Englishman, Irishman, Frenchman or German, Jew or Gentile to this you have got to bow, and you have got to bow down like the clay in the hands of the potter, that suffers the potter to mould it according to his own pleasure. You have all got to come to this and if you do not come to it at this time, as sure as the sun ever rose and set, you will be cut from the wheel, and thrown back into the mill. You have come from the mill, and you have been there grinding. For what purpose? To bring you into a passive condition. You have been gathered from the nations of the earth, from among the kindreds, tongues, and peoples of the world, to the Valley of the Great Salt Lake, to purify and sanctify yourselves, and become like the passive clay in the hands of the potter. Now suppose I subject myself enough, in the hands of the potter, to be shaped according as he was dictated by the Great Master potter, that rules over all things in heaven and on earth, he would make me into a vessel of honor. There are many vessels that are destroyed after they have been moulded and shaped. Why? Because they are not contented with the shape the potter has given them, but straightway put themselves into a shape to please themselves; therefore they are beyond understanding what God designs, and they destroy themselves by the power of their own agency, for this is given to every man and woman, to do just as they please. That is all right, and all just. Well, then, you have to go through a great many modellings and shapes, then you have to be glazed and burned; and even in the burning, some vessels crack. What makes them crack? Because they are snappish; they would not crack, if they were not snappish and wilful. If you go to the potteries in Staffordshire, England, where the finest china ware is manufactured, you will see them take the coarsest materials about the pottery, and make a thing in the shape of a half bushel; then put the finest ware in these to secure it from danger in the burning operation. All the fine ware made in Europe and in China, is burnt in this kind of vessels. After they are done with, they are cast away-they are vessels of wrath fitted for destruction. So God takes the wicked, and makes them protect the righteous, in the process of sanctifying, and burning, and purifying, and preparing them, and making them fit for the Master's use. These saggars, as they are called, are compounded of refuse articles that have been cast out; so even they are good for something. The wicked are of use, for they are a rod in the hands of the Almighty to scourge the righteous, and prepare them for their Master's use, that they may enter into the celestial world, and be crowned with glory in His presence." (JD 2:150)
"We have not as yet any durable location; we are merely probationers in this present state, and we shall always be so, until we obtain a permanent exaltation, by following in the footsteps of our God. He is our Father and our God, and His Son Jesus Christ is our Savior, and the Holy Ghost is to be our comforter, and will comfort all those who will prepare their tabernacles as fit temples for him to dwell in.
When the Holy Ghost dwells in us it will enable us to discern between right and wrong, will show us things to come, and bring things to our remembrance, and will make every one of this people prophets and prophetesses of God. We have acknowledged brother Brigham to be our leader, and he holds the keys of the kingdom of heaven here on the earth. Whether people believe it or not, he is God's representative in the flesh, and is the mouth-piece of God unto us. Brother Joseph Smith many a time said to brother Brigham and myself, and to others, that he was a representative of God to us, to teach and direct us and reprove the wrong doers, He has past [sic] behind the veil, but there never will a person in this dispensation enter into the celestial glory without his approbation. Brother Brigham is brother Joseph's rightful successor, and he has his Counselors, and together they are an earthly pattern of the divine order of government. Those men are God's agents, His servants, and are witnesses of your covenants, which you will have to fulfil. And what you do not fulfil in this year you will have to do in the next; and what are not then fulfilled will have to be in some future time..... Brother Dan Jones has been talking to you about the clay in the hands of the potter. If you get hold of a lump of clay that is snappish and wilful, and not willing that you should twist it into any shape or form, what is the use of working it? You throw it back into the mill and let it be ground again, and then take it out and make of it a vessel unto honor.
Perhaps some do not really believe that when a man is thrown back into the mill, or goes into the spirit world, that he ever will be redeemed, but he will, if he has not sinned against the Holy Ghost. He will be ground and worked up until he becomes passive, and then God, through His servants, will redeem him, and make him a vessel unto honor. A great many will go to hell, and the very men that are preaching to you now will visit you and offer you salvation, after you have laid there, perhaps, thousands of years, for you must stay in the mill until you are passive and obedient. Jeremiah, at the command of God, went to the potter's house where the potter was molding the clay, and when he went to turn it on the wheel it was refractory and rebellious: and he worked at it and sweat over it, but after all it was rebellious, and fell down on the wheel. What did he do then? He cut it off from the wheel and threw it back into the mill, and after he had ground it awhile, he took it out and made of it a vessel unto honor; so of the same lump he made a vessel unto dishonor, and one unto honor. Did the potter make it dishonorable? No, the vessel made itself unto dishonor; and the next time it was pliable and passive, and the potter made of it a vessel unto honor, because it was honorable and submissive. I wished to make these few remarks, because they touch upon things that are on my mind all the time. And if you wish to be Saints, for God's sake be Saints, and if you wish to be devils, be devils, and get out of this place; and let those that will be Saints, be Saints; and let them commune together and carry out the purpose of God. I would rather have three hundred men and women that are perfectly amenable to the authorities of this Church, than a numerous people that are rebellious; and I could do more to bring about the purposes of God, and do it ten times quicker, with a few faithful persons, than with hosts of the wicked."(JD 4:begins pg.119)
"I frequently talk about the clay in the hands of the potter. The Lord said to Jeremiah, "I will show you a thing that I cannot tell you. Go down to the potter's house, and I will be there, but you shall not see me; and I will make that potter mar a vessel." Jeremiah went down to the potter's house, and the Lord showed him the very thing he had promised; for the potter undertook to make a vessel, and the clay marred in his hands, and he cut it off the wheel and threw it into the mill; "and now," says he, "take it out again and shape it into a ball, and turn it into a vessel of honour." He did that very thing, though it is not written. The Scriptures say that out of the same lump he made a vessel first unto dishonour, and then unto honour.
I used to preach upon that in Nauvoo, and Joseph said it was the true interpretation. Now, Jeremiah was a man like brother Brigham, brother Heber, Amasa, and thousands of the servants of God that were valiant. There are thousands here that have never seen a potter's house. But if I was in one, I could take a lump of clay and show you; and perhaps, being out of practice, it would mar in my hands: then I would throw it back into the mill and grind it, and afterwards I would take it up again and make a vessel unto honour. And thus the Lord said to Jeremiah, "As you see that clay mar in the hands of the potter, so shall it be with the house of Israel. They shall go and be in prison till I bring them out and make them vessels unto honour." That is to be done in the latter days, when the Lord is to say to the dry bones, "Come forth," and so on. Go and read the Bible, and you will learn about it. It will be just so with thousands and tens of thousands who will embrace "Mormonism:" they will go back into the mill again, through disobedience." (JD 5:begin pg.271)
(HC 5:403 "We also heard him (Joseph) say that God had revealed unto him that any man who ever committed adultery in either of his probations that that man could never be raised to the highest exaltation in the celestial glory and that he (Joseph) felt anxious with regard to himself and he inquired of the Lord and the Lord told him that he, Joseph, had never committed adultery (see D&C 132:41).
Heber C. Kimball: " If you do not cultivate yourselves, and cultivate your spirits in this state of existence, it is just as true as there is a God that liveth, you will have to go into another state of existence, and bring your spirits into subjection there. Now you may reflect upon it, you never will obtain your resurrected bodies, until you bring your spirits into subjection. I am not talking to this earthly house of mine, neither am I talking to your bodies, but I am speaking to your spirits. I am not talking as to people who are not in the house. Are not your spirits in the house? Are not your bodies your houses, your tabernacles or temples, and places for your spirits? Look at it; reflect upon it. If you keep your spirits trained according to the wisdom and fear of God, you will attain to the salvation of both body and spirit. I ask, then, if it is your spirits that must be brought into subjection? It is; and if you do not do that in these bodies, you will have to go into another estate to do it. You have got to train yourselves according to the law of God, or you will never obtain your resurrected bodies. Mark it! You do not think of these things, you only think of to-day." (JD 1:355-356, Nov. 14, 1852)
Orson Hyde received a revelation in about February 1839 which was recorded in the diary of Joseph Allen Stout: “I was on my return from Richmond landing with a span of mares and wagon, belonging to B. Jones, and on the wide prarie I saw a man walking behind me. I reined in the team to let him overtake me, and who should it be but Orson Hyde, who had apostatized in the fuss, but had seen a vision in which it was made known to him that if he did not make immediate restitution to the Quorum of the Twelve, he would be cut off and all his posterity, and that the curse of Cain would be upon him." (Autobiography and Journal of Joseph Allen Stout, Utah State Historical Society, pg. 9-10)
Parley P, Pratt's Autobiography June 27, 1844, "Lift up your head and rejoice; for behold! it is well with my servants Joseph and Hyrum. My servant Joseph still holds the keys of my kingdom in this dispensation, and he shall stand in due time on the earth, in the flesh, and fulfill that to which he is appointed...(Autobiography of PPP,pg.294, 1985 edition)
Diary of Orson F. Whitney "3 June 1889: This evening I heard that Pres. Woodruff, in a meeting at Manti, a few days ago, publicly declared that the doctrine of reincarnation, that is one spirit having several bodies, to be false; that he was Wilford Woodruff and no one else, &c &c. Alright, bro. Woodruff, if you really said it, it is between you and the Lord. I believe it to be a true doctrine, & have for the last (word cut out of entry) years." (Diary of OFW, 3 June 1889, Church Archives)
OFW Diary: "8 June 1889: During our talks he (Lorenzo Snow) told me that his sister, the late Eliza R. Snow Smith was a firm believer in the principle of reincarnation and that she claimed to have received it from Joseph the Prophet, her husband. He said he saw nothing unreasonable in it, and could believe it, if it came to him from the Lord or his oracle." (ibid 8 June 1889)
Orson Pratt: "I heard brother Young say that Jesus had a body of flesh and bones, before he came (to earth and) he was born of the Virgin Mary, it was so contrary to every revelation given." (Minutes of meeting on April 5, 1860, BY Papers)
"Joseph always told us that we would have to pass by sentinels that are placed between us and our Father and God. Then, of course, we are conducted along from this probation to other probations, or from one dispensation to another, by those who conducted those dispensations." (Journal of Discourses 6:63)
"God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens! That is the great secret." (King Follet Discourse, 'Discourses of the Prophet Joseph Smith', pg 262)
"We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil, so that you may see." (King Follet Discourse, 'Discourses of the Prophet Joseph Smith', pg 263-264)
"The scriptures inform us that Jesus said, as the Father hath power in himself, even so hath the son power - to do what? Why what the Father did. The answer is obvious - in a manner to lay down his body and take it up again. Jesus, what are you going to do? To lay down my life as my Father did, and take it up again. Do you believe it? If you do not believe it you do not believe the Bible. The scriptures say it, and I defy all the learning and wisdom and all the combined powers of earth and hell together to refute it. Here, then, is eternal life - to know the only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all gods have done before you, namely, by going from one small degree to another, and from a small capacity to a great one; from grace to grace, from exaltation to exaltation, until you attain to the resurrection of the dead, and are able to dwell in everlasting burnings, and to sit in glory, as do those who sit enthroned in everlasting power. And, I want you to know that God, in the last days, while certain individuals are proclaiming his name, is not trifling with you or me." (King Follet Discourse, 'Discourses of the Prophet Joseph Smith', pg 263-264)
"What did Jesus Do? 'Why I do the things I saw my father do when worlds came rolling into existence, my father worked out His kingdom with fear and trembling, and I must do the same; and when I get my kingdom, I shall present it to my father so that He may obtain kingdom upon kingdom, an it will exalt Him in glory, He will then take a higher exaltation, and I will take His place, and thereby become exalted myself.' So that Jesus treads in the tracks of His father, and inherits what God did before; and God is thus glorified and exalted in the salvation and exaltation of all His children. It is plain beyond disputation, and you thus learn the First Principles of the Gospel, about which so much has been said." (King Follet Discourse, 'Discourses of the Prophet Joseph Smith', pg 263-264)
"Brother Willard Richards and I wrote a lengthy article on Election and Reprobation for the Millennial Star." ('The Journal of Brigham Young', Friday, January 1, 1841)
"I preached at the Music Hall twice, on Election and Reprobation." ('The Journal of Brigham Young', Sunday, January 24, 1841)
"Many of you, no doubt, have concluded that the doctrine of election and reprobation is true, and you do so with propriety, for it is true; it is a scriptural doctrine." (Journal of Discourses 7:282-290)
"I might enumerate many more instances, and say that they are all right so far as they go in truth. The doctrine of freewill and conditional salvation, the doctrine of free grace and unconditional salvation, the doctrine of fore ordination and reprobation, and many more that I have not time to enumerate, can all be fully and satisfactorily proved by the Scriptures, and are true." (Journal of Discourses 7:282-290)
"I told you that the doctrine of election and reprobation is a true doctrine." (Journal of Discourses 7:289)
"Others were tortured, not accepting deliverance, that they might obtain a better resurrection." (See Heb. 11th chap., part of the 35th verse.)
A question may be asked--"Will mothers have their children in eternity?" Yes! yes! Mothers, you shall have your children; for they shall have eternal life; for their debt is paid. There is no damnation awaits them, for they are in the spirit. But as the child dies, so shall it rise from the dead, and be for ever living in the learning of God. It will never grow: it will still be the child, in the same precise form as it appeared before it died out of its mother's arms, but possessing all the intelligence of a God. Children dwell in the mansions of glory and exercise power, but appear in the same form as when on earth. Eternity is full of thrones, upon which dwell thousands of children reigning on thrones of glory, with not one cubit added to their stature. (King Follett discourse)
Mothers you shall have your children, for they shall have eternal life: for their debt is paid, there is no damnation awaits them, for they are in the spirit.--As the child dies, so shall it rise from the dead and be forever living in the learning of God, it shall be the child, the same as it was before it died out of your arms. Children dwell and exercise power in the same form as they laid them down. The baptism of water without the baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost attending it is of no use: they are necessary. He must be born of water and the spirits in order to get into the kingdom of God.
I understand them. I said no man can commit the unpardonable sin after the dissolution of the body, but they must do it in this world: (King Follett discourse)
(You cannot be accountable for sin as a spirit.)
Take it or leave it.
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